PDA

View Full Version : M5OD-R1 vs. M5OD-R1HD


metalmacguyver
09-15-2007, 12:20 PM
I have had trouble finding info on the M5OD-R1HD. how much does it share with the M5OD-R1? i would think that one could be a bolt in swap for the other. is this correct? are the input and output shafts the same?

was the HD the only manual transmission that was used behind the SOHC 4.0L?
what are the actual numbers for HP and Torque handling for this transmission or where can i find them?

how much would a HD tranny be worth in good working order?

what major differences are there if any between the two trannys?

stegomon
09-15-2007, 02:36 PM
hd as in heavy duty?...i think there is only the r1 and r2...

wahlstrom1
09-15-2007, 03:27 PM
No, he's right, there is an HD version, used only behind the sohc engine. Not too sure what the differences are, aside from a bolt or two on the bellhousing. When I was looking into getting my tranny rebuilt, 3 different shops couldn't tell me any difference between the two, and couldn't come up with any different parts numbers between them.

-andrew

metalmacguyver
09-16-2007, 10:46 AM
so do you mean that it wont be able to bolt up to a 4.0 OHV?

wahlstrom1
09-16-2007, 03:02 PM
It'll bolt up, but if my memory serves me correct there's an extra bolt hole on the housing and not a hole in the block for it.

-andrew

metalmacguyver
09-16-2007, 04:30 PM
i did manage to find some more info over on explorerforum.com.
the first gear ratio is lower in the HD and supposedly the first and second gear syncros are more robust.

does anyone else know anything about these?

i found one in a junkyard in a wrecked 02 explorer. it seems to shift fine by feel. it would be a safe estimate to say that the tranny has 80K on it. what would a fair price be? i asked the yard owner and he wants 450 for it. that seems steep to me. i would think 300 tops. thoughts?

Jspafford
09-16-2007, 06:23 PM
i did manage to find some more info over on explorerforum.com.
the first gear ratio is lower in the HD and supposedly the first and second gear syncros are more robust.

does anyone else know anything about these?

i found one in a junkyard in a wrecked 02 explorer. it seems to shift fine by feel. it would be a safe estimate to say that the tranny has 80K on it. what would a fair price be? i asked the yard owner and he wants 450 for it. that seems steep to me. i would think 300 tops. thoughts?

$450 is steep. You have no idea what condition it is in, and unless it was his personal vehicle, he doesn't either. Offer him what you feel it is worth, not more than $300 and go from there.

metalmacguyver
09-17-2007, 09:27 PM
OK this is the conclusion that i have reached.

the M5OD-R1HD that is supposedly used in the explorers with the SOHC is actually the M5R4. these transmissions are completely different and while they are both mazdas and both bolt to the same engines, they share no parts.

The M5R4 was only found in 2002-2003 explorers.

one point of interest though is that it has a detachable bell housing. anyone got some ideas to make use of this....?

The M5OD-R1HD is the same thing as the M5OD-R1 except it has taller gear ratios.
The HD was found only behind the SOHC 4.0L.

http://rsgear.com/articles.asp
an amazing number of articles on manual transmissions in general and on specific transmissions aswell.

http://rsgear.com/articles/2002_11.pdf

the gear ratios
Gear M5OD-R1 M5OD-R1HD M5R4
1st 3.72 3.40 3.37
2nd 2.20 2.05 2.04
3rd 1.50 1.31 1.30
4th 1.00 1.00 1.00
5th(OD) 0.79 0.79 0.78
Reverse 3.40 3.40 3.40

Natedog
09-18-2007, 01:51 PM
OK this is the conclusion that i have reached.

the M5OD-R1HD that is supposedly used in the explorers with the SOHC is actually the M5R4. these transmissions are completely different and while they are both mazdas and both bolt to the same engines, they share no parts.

The M5R4 was only found in 2002-2003 explorers.

one point of interest though is that it has a detachable bell housing. anyone got some ideas to make use of this....?

The M5OD-R1HD is the same thing as the M5OD-R1 except it has taller gear ratios.
The HD was found only behind the SOHC 4.0L.

http://rsgear.com/articles.asp
an amazing number of articles on manual transmissions in general and on specific transmissions aswell.

http://rsgear.com/articles/2002_11.pdf

the gear ratios
Gear M5OD-R1 M5OD-R1HD M5R4
1st 3.72 3.40 3.37
2nd 2.20 2.05 2.04
3rd 1.50 1.31 1.30
4th 1.00 1.00 1.00
5th(OD) 0.79 0.79 0.78
Reverse 3.40 3.40 3.40

Great info, thanks!

Strub1975
09-20-2007, 08:25 PM
From what i have researched metal is correct except that the 4.0 rangers have had the 3.40 gear sets since the 4.0 came out. all the other trannies had the 3.72 gear set.
there have been two gear sets for the M50D-R1 since the 4.0 was put in the ranger. this was done because there was no need for the lower gears since the 4.0 had more HP and torque

I am still trying to figure out the differences between the
M50d-R1 and the M50D-R1HD seems that there are limited resources on the HD trannies

Now the article on the M5r4 was great that is a whole different animal. basically the lengths of the shafts are swapped(the input is longer and the output is shorter) wich is pretty cool but I dont' really see an advantage of it to be honest ?? who knows LOL

nathanb
04-15-2009, 06:03 PM
I'm also kinda lost! I own a 93 ranger SOHC V6. I'm needing (i think) a replacement. Mine got a clutch kit and slave cylinder. Installed it, but now all gears except 1st and 2nd engage. Iv read a few articles and seems that the tranny got low on fluid and seized 1st and 2nd together. Ive searched for others but let me tell you 'THE M50D-R1HD ARE HARD TO FIND!"
Would like to know however if the M50D-R1 will interchange

mjonesjr
04-15-2009, 06:20 PM
The M50D-R1HD will bolt up to a 4.0 OHV and will NOT have an extra bolt hole. I installed an '03 M50D-R1HD in my '97 Ranger and there was no extra bolt holes.

AllanD
04-15-2009, 08:54 PM
The M5R4 explorer trans is a different animal that goes with the
later semi-integrated T-case used in the IRS explorers.

The HD is the RANGER transmission.

If a trans alleged to be an "HD" doesn't have an "extra bolt hole" it isn't an HD.

One bolt on the SOHC engine needed to be relocated for timing chain clearance to the passenger side camshaft and the bolt boss was in the way

PErsonally I've never done more than lay my hands on an HD.

eventually... I'll get my hands on one and get to dig inside it
and I'll get back to everyone...

AD

mjonesjr
04-15-2009, 09:46 PM
If a trans alleged to be an "HD" doesn't have an "extra bolt hole" it isn't an HD.
The transmission I used on my '97 Ranger came off of rwenzing (http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/member.php?u=7318)'s '03 Ranger. I think there is no doubt that his truck was a 4.0 SOHC.

Sevensecondsuv
04-16-2009, 01:09 PM
I'm also kinda lost! I own a 93 ranger SOHC V6.

Unless you did a swap, you don't have a SOHC 4.0L. That engine didn't come out until 97 in the explorer and about 2001 in the ranger. What you have is an OHV (overhead valve) 4.0L that was introduced in 1990. As such, you also have an M5OD-R1 4.0L spec tranny, which should be abundant and cheap to replace.

Now if you did do the swap to put a 4.0L SOHC in, please tell us how you did it, because this is not a popular swap and we could all stand to learn from it. I personally am interested to know if you are using the EEC-IV system or swapped to the later EEC-V system from the SOHC donor vehicle.

Again, if you didn't swap engines, then hopefully this clears up some of your confusion. If you did swap, please tell us more!

AllanD
04-16-2009, 09:00 PM
The transmission I used on my '97 Ranger came off of rwenzing (http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/member.php?u=7318)'s '03 Ranger. I think there is no doubt that his truck was a 4.0 SOHC.

I say again, the SOHC bellhousing has one relocated bolt hole
The bolt hole at the 2 O'clock position.

AD

mjonesjr
04-16-2009, 09:14 PM
I say again, the SOHC bellhousing has one relocated bolt hole
The bolt hole at the 2 O'clock position.

AD
I hear what you are saying, but I KNOW that the SOHC bell housing did NOT have an extra bolt hole on my '97 OHV.

BDAB
04-16-2009, 11:25 PM
doesn't the r1HD have both bell patterns? I think I read that somewhere ....... and seen a pic..... it may have been at dezert rangerz.

james99
04-17-2009, 12:34 AM
this info should go into the technical libarary when it is all put together

fastpakr
04-17-2009, 01:49 AM
Maurice - any chance rwenzing's trans had been replaced with a regular M5OD before you got it?

Fx4wannabe01
04-17-2009, 03:23 AM
2002 M5OD-R1HD....note: a couple of dual holes... Either for both bolt patterns or alignment dowels....

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/TrePaul86/Manual%20Transmission%20Swap/IMG_0028.jpg


2001 4.0L SOHC:.....Towards the right of the centerline of the block, just under the passenger side head...notice the 'blank' spot? Could that possibly be what's a threaded hole on a OHV?

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/TrePaul86/Manual%20Transmission%20Swap/IMG_0065.jpg


Hole in question clearly does not have a bolt in it in this pic...
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/TrePaul86/Manual%20Transmission%20Swap/IMG_0070.jpg

Oh..Maurice...your edited thread over at RF was no help during that auto to manual swap.

mjonesjr
04-17-2009, 07:09 AM
Maurice - any chance rwenzing's trans had been replaced with a regular M5OD before you got it?
Doubtful. The truck only had like 25,000 miles on it when he took it out.

Oh..Maurice...your edited thread over at RF was no help during that auto to manual swap.
Should have asked me here. None of my how-to's are there anymore. I don't share my info with people who don't want me around:icon_thumby:

AllanD
04-17-2009, 10:21 AM
The trans pictured HAS the "extra hole"

Please note that on the back of the SOHC engine that there is a plug
where the top right bolt goes

Also notice that there is an extra hole <2" away down and further right.
The trans pictured is a "Dual bolt pattern" trans.

You argue against what I said then post pictures to prove my point for me.

Now is the time for me to ask "Are ya stupid or somethin'?"

AD

mjonesjr
04-17-2009, 02:16 PM
You are correct Allan. I apologize. I found a picture of the transmission I used.

swamprat
04-17-2009, 05:09 PM
Just to mess thing up a bit, my 1995 F 150 with an inline 6 has a m5od-hd in it. Also my buddies with a 302 in his f 150.

mjonesjr
04-17-2009, 05:17 PM
Just to mess thing up a bit, my 1995 F 150 with an inline 6 has a m5od-hd in it. Also my buddies with a 302 in his f 150.
Your F-150 has the M50D-R2.

swamprat
04-17-2009, 08:51 PM
Your F-150 has the M50D-R2.

My haynes book says different. Chiltons says M5OD-R2. Could that be why I had a hard time finding a seal for the yoke on my 2wd trany?

rboyer
04-18-2009, 12:47 AM
You do have the M5OD-R2 and yes your Haynes manual is wrong. If you have a 2wd F150 with a M5OD-R2 then the Timken part # is 710415 for the seal and you should be able to get it at your local Autozone or just about anywhere else that sells auto parts...

http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/prt,118,710415
http://frugalmechanic.com/auto-part/813381-timken-710415-seal

wizkid00104
04-18-2009, 01:04 AM
Doesn't the newer trannies have a different spline count output shaft so the would not mate to old transfer cases?

fastpakr
04-18-2009, 01:36 AM
All the same.