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Cummins 4bt engine swap in a 2002 4x4 Edge


stmitch

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Yeah, the Ram is heavy. Its also got a bigger engine, that will meet the OPs power goals more easily and more reliably.

If we were talking about a stock 4Bt, thenn it wouldn't be so bad, but a 500hp 4Bt is going to require upgrading/strengthening pretty much every mechanical part of the truck. By the time you add the 4Bt (they weigh about 750lbs) the heavy trans to handle all of that tq, the frame bracing to handle the additional weight and tq, and the axles to handle the tq what started as a 4000lb Ranger is probably getting very close to (or exceeding) 5000lbs, and all of a sudden, the Ranger's weight advantage isn't so great anymore.

Add to that the fact that you can just go buy a Ram in a couple of hours and skip all of the time and work required to do a complex swap like this (sinice the OP says hes "not the best fabricator") and it makes the choice pretty easy in my eyes.

A 4Bt Ranger would be cool. No argument there. But I'm not convinced its the best option here unless Mrs OP won't have it any other way.
 


chucky2

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Just to tie into my previous post, if you go here: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/diesels.jsp

And then do a search with a date range of 2009 - present day, that will get you all the Clean Diesel mills available (obviously if you didn't want/need a CD option then the list would get even larger). Also obviously there are a lot of engine repeats in there. Basically you have the 4 and 6 cyl offerings from VW, BMW, and Mercedes.

If you could find V6 diesel from one of those offerings, those might be easier to make your HP goal with and would almost definitely be a lot lighter than the 4bt. Still would have the power -> drivetrain issue.

Getting a lightly used Ram EcoDiesel would probably be a far better option...with a $15k budget, you can make a lot of payments before you hit $15k, all the while saving for the remainder of the payments. Would be a lot nicer truck than a Ranger...
 

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Now 500 ft lbs of torque is a more realistic goal...
 
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I wonder though what the power to weight ratio would be for a tuned (and whatever'd) VW TDI vs. a tuned (and whatever'd) 4bt? You may in fact given the weight disparity of the total vehicle (considering what you'll have to do to the truck for a 4bt of that power level) end up with a better power to weight ratio on the VW TDI option than the 4bt. I don't know what either are capable of so I'm merely asking the question, but it'd seem like one to seriously figure out before going down such a drastic road to 4btdom.

If you are going to have to do such large changes, I wonder if you could track down a wrecked BMW or Mercedes Clean Diesel? Those had V6 turbo CD options, probably still didn't weigh what a 4bt weighs, and probably are approaching or exceeding - with a tune and/or whatever - your 500HP goal.

Plus putting one of those into a Ranger would be a first (as far as I've heard). Just something to think about...
I don't think tdi is a good idea. The older (easier to mod/tune) engines are small 1.9 liters and barely over 100hp. I'm not sure if I've even seen one that's been built to those power numbers. The newer common rail motors come stock with 140 hp. My 2013 tdi has a stage 2 tune and emissions delete and is rated at 183/333. Even with the biggest commercially available aftermarket turbo upgrade I don't think they make more than 330? And there's fueling issues and no aftermarket fuel pump support yet. Plus they are extremely complicated electrically and the only rwd option would be importing an amarok drive train. $$$$

There are v6 tdi engines but they only come in very expensive vehicles and you'd be hard pressed to find them. Plus again they're crazy complicated.

Now if you had an entire touareg with the v10 tdi to swap everything over, that would be sweet. But big money and complicated and idk if it would fit

Basically, stick with the cummins, it can be done. Probably expensively but itll be really cool lol
 
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Oh, and an 8.8 can be built to handle big power fairly easily, the drag racing crowd does it all the time.
 

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Oh, I know the 4 banger VW TDIs won't make close to 500 HP even with crazy tunes. My point is with a good - but not insane - tune the power to weight ratio may be better than what the OP is looking to do.

Say someone had to 'have 500 HP Cummins' - they want a shitton of power, and I get that. But if the vehicle total weight, and I'm exaggerating here to make my point, was 20,000 lbs, would that vehicle actually perform better than a 4 cyl VW TDI with good tune in a Ranger? You'd have your 500 HP but if the cost to get that, reliably, is going to be a vehicle with a worse power to weight ratio, is it really beneficial to go to that 500 HP Cummins destination? I'm not even a novice so I don't really know, it just seems something to really think about/plan around before going to that destination.

The reason I suggested the 6 cyl German TDI offerings is because if that 500 HP goal was really needed, maybe a tune on one of those would be reachable and you'd have far less weight into the solution than a 500 HP Cummins. Again, I'm not sure what the weights would be, someone would need to figure that out ahead of time.

And yeah, probably acquiring a wrecked vehicle with good engine and drivetrain would be needed. One would have like a Roureg, or a Ranger Q7. Hmm...that sounds nice... :yahoo:
 
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Oh, I know the 4 banger VW TDIs won't make close to 500 HP even with crazy tunes. My point is with a good - but not insane - tune the power to weight ratio may be better than what the OP is looking to do.

Say someone had to 'have 500 HP Cummins' - they want a shitton of power, and I get that. But if the vehicle total weight, and I'm exaggerating here to make my point, was 20,000 lbs, would that vehicle actually perform better than a 4 cyl VW TDI with good tune in a Ranger? You'd have your 500 HP but if the cost to get that, reliably, is going to be a vehicle with a worse power to weight ratio, is it really beneficial to go to that 500 HP Cummins destination? I'm not even a novice so I don't really know, it just seems something to really think about/plan around before going to that destination.

The reason I suggested the 6 cyl German TDI offerings is because if that 500 HP goal was really needed, maybe a tune on one of those would be reachable and you'd have far less weight into the solution than a 500 HP Cummins. Again, I'm not sure what the weights would be, someone would need to figure that out ahead of time.

And yeah, probably acquiring a wrecked vehicle with good engine and drivetrain would be needed. One would have like a Roureg, or a Ranger Q7. Hmm...that sounds nice... :yahoo:
Agreed! And a roureg would be the beezkneez, except the insane parts costs :icon_surprised:
 

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500 hp 4bt is easily achievable and with your 15000 budget I don't see a problem, my engine is a ppump unit. Factory rear was handling it just fine. I just upgraded to an explorer axle cause it was laying here. I built the motor and had had about 5k into it tops, that's an complete overhaul and everything new and balanced rotating assembly. It makes 350hp at the rear wheels on fuel and I have a .55 shot of nitrous on it for the drag strip. I think if you had a build similar to mine you would be happy. My engine at 350hp makes more torque than say a 500hp gas motor
 

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500 hp 4bt is easily achievable and with your 15000 budget I don't see a problem, my engine is a ppump unit. Factory rear was handling it just fine. I just upgraded to an explorer axle cause it was laying here. I built the motor and had had about 5k into it tops, that's an complete overhaul and everything new and balanced rotating assembly. It makes 350hp at the rear wheels on fuel and I have a .55 shot of nitrous on it for the drag strip. I think if you had a build similar to mine you would be happy. My engine at 350hp makes more torque than say a 500hp gas motor
i mostly agree. save for the 8.8. in a 4wd application with moderate traction 35 in tires you will want a full float 60 at the minimum.

drag racing is nothing compared to low range 4 wheelin. it is a good standard to judge certain strengths from but i learned the hard way it dont mean shit if you like getting crazy on even mild trails.


in a big 4x4 the tdi is simply not a good choice.
 

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