87 A/C Retrofit questions/checklist

I found the handy retrofitting pdf under the tech articles section but had a few questions for anyone who has completed this project.

Here is the list of things I need from the PDF, but I want to make a check list of sorts so I want to be sure I get everything.

(1) compressor-will get a refurbished one
(1) condenser-will buy new
(1) three hoses- will buy new
(1) evaporator (minus- the orifice tube )-will order new evap & orifice tube.
(1) short wiring harness-I'll probably need to get this from the JY. Anyone have a picture or will it be easy to spot when I'm there?
(1) control head- This is the a/c panel for inside, correct?
(1) evaporator housing (not including the resistor pack or blower motor) and
relay.- Do I not need the parts in parenthesis or do I need new ones?

I did a full A/C replacement in a 99 s-10 once and it worked the entire 8 or so years we had it after that so I feel confident that with the right information I can do this.

Has anyone ever ordered anything from http://www.rangerauto.com/conditioning/1987-car_parts.html ???
They seem much cheaper than LMC.

What other parts do I need from the JY other than the condenser bracket, receiver/drier clamp, & wiring harness?

My budget for this entire project is a hard cap a 1k. Can't go a penny over and need to stay as far under budget as possible. 700-800 would be great since I'm still going to buy new parts to keep contaminants from having me do this again.

Also, the only pick-n-pulls around me that have online inventory are 40+miles away so I need to limit my trips unless I know for sure they have something. There are plenty of other yards but I have no way of knowing which ones have what I need without going, and I work 45-50 hrs a week so Saturday mornings are it as far as free time goes, and I get, at best, 1-2 of those a month to myself.

The main idea here is to have a system that looks as nice as the rest of my engine parts, but also can be retrofitted to 134a before any refrigerant has been introduced to the system, eliminating the task of vacuuming/flushing old refrigerant. (around 100 bucks or so service around here or more).

Finally: "Note that you will lose some function when retrofitting to R-134a;
it just doesn't have the same thermodynamic properties (latent heat
of vaporization, specific heat, boiling point, operating pressure)
that R-12 does. There are more efficient condensers you can use;
rather than the traditional serpentine tube, these are designed
much more like a radiator. But at $150 or so, it may or may not be
worth it to you."

Texas runs about 5 degrees cooler than the temperature they keep it in Hell all summer long, so I need this thing to work well. If any of these components can be replaced to work more efficiently and I can stay under budget, someone please let me know what they are. Everything needs to be bolt on if possible, I have a million other projects that need fab work, so I don't want to add this to the list lol.

Thanks everyone!

Bump

I think the R-12 efficiency thing gets blown way out of proportion.
Not quite 8 years ago I did a R-12 to R-134a conversion on my '90 using the stock condenser & evap (w/red orifice tube). It cools to between 36-40°F at the center vent even when it's 100°F+ outside (any colder than that I would think evaporator icing would start to be an issue). Whether the condenser for a '87 is the same unit as my '90 though, I'm not sure (my '90 one does appear to be the same unit as the one in my '94, which came with R-134a from the factory).
Some things you can do to improve system efficiency is insulate the exterior of the blower motor/evap housing, the accumulator, and the length of suction hose going from the accumulator to the compressor. This will lessen somewhat the load on the system from underhood heat. Another trick is to seal around the space between the radiator and condenser, this will allow the fan to pull more air thru the condenser rather than air bypassing around it.

As for your blower motor and resistor, I would think they would be the same whether the truck originally had A/C or not, but I cannot say for sure (sorry).

Hope that helps.




P.S.,
Vacuuming (evacuating) the system is required regardless of whether a previous (different) refrigerant was used or not. The only thing starting with all new parts saves you is having to flush out any old lubricating oil (which is something not removed by vacuuming anyway). So if you're planning to charge the system yourself you'll need to add a vacuum pump of some sort and a set of gauges to your list as well.

The main idea here is to have a system that looks as nice as the rest of my engine parts, but also can be retrofitted to 134a before any refrigerant has been introduced to the system, eliminating the task of vacuuming/flushing old refrigerant. (around 100 bucks or so service around here or more).

Click to expand...

4x4junkie said:

I think the R-12 efficiency thing gets blown way out of proportion.
Not quite 8 years ago I did a R-12 to R-134a conversion on my '90 using the stock condenser & evap (w/red orifice tube). It cools to between 36-40°F at the center vent even when it's 100°F+ outside (any colder than that I would think evaporator icing would start to be an issue). Whether the condenser for a '87 is the same unit as my '90 though, I'm not sure (my '90 one does appear to be the same unit as the one in my '94, which came with R-134a from the factory).
Some things you can do to improve system efficiency is insulate the exterior of the blower motor/evap housing, the accumulator, and the length of suction hose going from the accumulator to the compressor. This will lessen somewhat the load on the system from underhood heat. Another trick is to seal around the space between the radiator and condenser, this will allow the fan to pull more air thru the condenser rather than air bypassing around it.

As for your blower motor and resistor, I would think they would be the same whether the truck originally had A/C or not, but I cannot say for sure (sorry).

Hope that helps.




P.S.,
Vacuuming (evacuating) the system is required regardless of whether a previous (different) refrigerant was used or not. The only thing starting with all new parts saves you is having to flush out any old lubricating oil (which is something not removed by vacuuming anyway). So if you're planning to charge the system yourself you'll need to add a vacuum pump of some sort and a set of gauges to your list as well.

Click to expand...

Big time help, thank you!

When I bought my truck all the under hood A/C parts had been stripped off. I bought all the needed parts from U-Pull including the hoses. I bought an O-ring kit, orifice tube, dryer and quart of flush. I flushed everything, added new oil, evac and charge. One part I had to buy last minute was the R-134a conversion valves. I probably would not have needed those if I could have found my old gauge set. The new gauges I "rented" only had the snap on hoses not the smaller thread on style.

For the wiring harness just start at the compressor and follow it back to the plug near the battery. There is also a WOT relay that cuts off the compressor when you floor it. That is in the relay box the OBD1 test connector attaches to. Mine didn't work correctly so I bypassed it. I don't know if this is included on non A/C trucks or if you will need to get all this off the JY truck.

My A/C worked great all summer and gets plenty cold. Now that I am older I appreciate the comfort of a cool truck in the summer. Since I bought all used parts and already had the evaporator my total cost was under $250, well worth it.

I don't think you will notice any lack of performance with the R-134a.

Edit: I looked at that web site you referenced for parts. The parts prices listed were from 2006, todays prices might not be so friendly. Also I would hesitate to order from someone who doesn't update their site for 10 years.

2trux said:

When I bought my truck all the under hood A/C parts had been stripped off. I bought all the needed parts from U-Pull including the hoses. I bought an O-ring kit, orifice tube, dryer and quart of flush. I flushed everything, added new oil, evac and charge. One part I had to buy last minute was the R-134a conversion valves. I probably would not have needed those if I could have found my old gauge set. The new gauges I "rented" only had the snap on hoses not the smaller thread on style.

For the wiring harness just start at the compressor and follow it back to the plug near the battery. There is also a WOT relay that cuts off the compressor when you floor it. That is in the relay box the OBD1 test connector attaches to. Mine didn't work correctly so I bypassed it. I don't know if this is included on non A/C trucks or if you will need to get all this off the JY truck.

My A/C worked great all summer and gets plenty cold. Now that I am older I appreciate the comfort of a cool truck in the summer. Since I bought all used parts and already had the evaporator my total cost was under $250, well worth it.

I don't think you will notice any lack of performance with the R-134a.

Edit: I looked at that web site you referenced for parts. The parts prices listed were from 2006, todays prices might not be so friendly. Also I would hesitate to order from someone who doesn't update their site for 10 years.

Click to expand...

This is some great info. I'm going to go this route I believe if the parts I can find are in good shape. That is a huge difference in price. Hopefully I can get by the yard this weekend and at least get some of the parts I need to start installing.

Parts

So I got the wiring harness that runs between the dryer and the compressor today, a compressor with a free spinning pulley and working clutch, the front and rear compressor bracket, and the AC control panel. 175 cash for this, plus I still need the evap box, hoses, front crankshaft pulley and the condenser from the JY truck,which was an 89 I think. Maybe 90. I'm picking them up next Sat.

Besides the dryer and orifice tube, I need to make sure I get everything else.

1. Does anyone know if the non ac truck already has the correct wiring harness plug to plug into the ac panel for the compressor on/off switch? That harness doesn't unplug, and I'm hoping to avoid splicing into the harness.

2. Can you explain the WOT harness again? Maybe a pic if possible?

3. To adapt the fitting from the small screw type R12, what do I need to convert it to the 134a fittings?

I know I need to change some O rings, does anyone know of a kit for this?

Am I missing anything?

You can get complete O-ring kits at places like Autozone, O'Reilly's, etc.

For the fittings, you just unscrew the R-12 valve core, then thread a R-12 - R-134a adapter onto it and tighten it down.

tx_pwp5 said:

Am I missing anything?

Click to expand...

if you're reusing a R-12 compressor that already had R-12 run through it, I believe you want to use ester oil for the R-134a conversion. With a new compressor, PAG-46 is preferred (and was what I used for mine).

Sorry I don't have info on the wiring harness.

2trux said:

There is also a WOT relay that cuts off the compressor when you floor it. That is in the relay box the OBD1 test connector attaches to. Mine didn't work correctly so I bypassed it. I don't know if this is included on non A/C trucks or if you will need to get all this off the JY truck.

Click to expand...

Would you happen to have a picture of this? Is it something that is easily unplugged or do I have to splice it? I ask because the yard I source for charges more if I have to cut something.

This weekend I was able to pick up the entire evap & evap box, and it still had the dryer attached so I got the connector for the low pressure switch. I also had to source a pulley from the front of the crankshaft.

Does anyone know where to get the rubber gasket for the box, or will I have to make one out of something?

The wiring harness from the 87 is completely different than the second gen. It's a way bigger PITA to get out, and has about 4 different plugs and a relay (or fuse?) attached to it that the 90 didn't have. Hopefully this helps someone in the future.

I'm getting all the old parts cleaned up and prepared for the install. The only thing I'm worried about now is what I will do if my truck doesn't have the main harness coming out of the firewall that connects to this harness. That will throw a big wrench into things. Anyone know?

I still have to order about 150 bucks worth of stuff like hoses, dryer, condenser & gaskets & such from Rock Auto, but so far I am exactly $240.00 out of pocket for parts and includes the following:

Both compressor brackets
Wiring Harness from dryer to compressor
Compressor
A/C crankshaft pulley
Complete A/C Box w/evaporator
Low pressure switch connection on A/C Dryer
A/C Control panel
Everything came with their corresponding bolts/washers/screws

You outta make a how to tech article on this with pics. MAKG's write up is pretty good but as you pointed out there isn't much for pictures of what you need.

I am thinking of doing the same thing you are but it is hard to know what is what once you get past the big stuff.

85_Ranger4x4 said:

You outta make a how to tech article on this with pics. MAKG's write up is pretty good but as you pointed out there isn't much for pictures of what you need.

I am thinking of doing the same thing you are but it is hard to know what is what once you get past the big stuff.

Click to expand...

I'll definitely do that. It's going to take me a couple weeks to get it installed b/c I'm getting married in less than 3 weeks. I've accumulated most of the parts, but I'll start taking pictures while I'm prepping the parts and see if I can build a nice PDF to upload.

Best,

Patrick

Here is the format they want you to follow, it is down a ways.

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147332

It just hit me last weekend I probably need to start gathering stuff if I am going to do it, first and second gens are starting to get thin in junkyards. It will be awhile before I actually do the conversion (which is complicated by me having a 10 year newer compressor than the rest of the system)

tx_pwp5 said:

The wiring harness from the 87 is completely different than the second gen. It's a way bigger PITA to get out, and has about 4 different plugs and a relay (or fuse?) attached to it that the 90 didn't have. Hopefully this helps someone in the future.

Click to expand...

Is that the harness that goes to the high and low switches? Know if it works the same as a first gen?

I have noticed the condenser is different too between a first and second gen. First gens have both pipes on the PS, second gen has one pipe on each side.

I am thinking the second gen might make things simpler since you wouldn't have to route a second hose across the engine to the compressor (if yours is on the DS like my 2.8's was)

Updated Parts List

Hi again everyone.

Here is an updated parts list of everything needed to start from scratch on this:

(1)compressor-I used a JY unit that was still pressurized and free moving
(1) condenser-new
(3) A/C hoses- new- Will also need hose to compressor fittings if yours don't come with them. These are the same for 1st Gen and at least early 2nd.
(1) evaporator- new but I've heard you can reuse old ones
(1) short wiring harness-JY-connects from dryer to compressor to main harness
(1) Dryer/Accumulator- new
(1) control head- JY piece
(1) evaporator housing got a JY truck, but ditched the motor and resistor pack for the ones from my truck which were in much better shape. Kept the old resistor pack in case it doesn't work right
(2) A/C Brackets
(1) Crankshaft pulley
(1) AC Belt
(1) Low pressure switch that attaches to dryer
(1) Dryer bracket for heater box
(1) I replaced the heater core while I had this all apart
(1) A/C orifice tube
(1) R12 conversion fittings kit
(1) A/C system O-rings, gaskets & seals kit

I also ordered a few other things that were cheap and I didn't know I would need like an A/C expansion valve & Compressor fitting & A/C system valve core & cap kit. I'd rather have them and not need them then be waiting on them while the truck is laid up.

I have 280.00 in new parts from RA including a 50.00 evaporator. I could have probably reused the one that was in the JY heater box. It was in good shape, but with all this time and money the extra 50 seemed worth it.

I also have I think around 200 or so in JY parts, but I've kept track of all that here.

I'm at around 500 or so total and know I still need to get the oil for this. I believe I have to use ester oil because I'm switching refrigerants.

I'm going to let my shop do all the labor on this due to a total lack of time, and the fact that I'll be out of the country for about a week. I'll post back with labor costs for the install including what I can manage to complete before I leave.

Remaining tasks:
ester oil
Gasket between heater box and firewall- I've heard that A/C tape will work for this ok

Does anyone see anything I'm missing? I have two weeks to make a full checklist and tag everything to give to my mechanic. I repainted all the old parts a matte textured black with a flat clear to blend in with the rest of the engine bay.