5.0 Questions

adsm08 · Aug 19, 2012

Ok, I can admit that I do not know a great deal about the 5.0, it was pretty well phased out by the time I started working on cars, but I need to start learning for a project that I have been putting off.

I am currently building an HO 5.0 out of an 88 Mustang for placement into my mom's 65. I already have the conversion mounts (car came with an I6), now I am getting ready to order gaskets and such.

Since this is going in a 60s car, it will be carbed. My big question is this: Are there any significant differences or oddities that I need to be aware of putting a carb setup on the HO long block?

I know I need to get the cam lobe for the fuel pump. I already have the proper front cover with the cut out. I need an intake yet. Also, I don't know dick about carbs. I also don't have one yet.

Finally, what does everyone like for auto tranny behind this engine. The car came with an auto, and despite my urgings my dad (who is funding the project) has decided not to convert it. I'm not sure if the trans that came in the car is a C5 or C6. I also can't remember which one my foreman told me was the one that was worth rebuilding for this application (something I'd dearly love to do since it should make many other aspects of this job easier.

Finally, ignition system: I tried to fix the issues with the old points-condenser system. I failed. I realize now, with the benefits of hind-sight and a great deal more knowledge of cars, that a large part of my failure was due to the fact that most of the engine wiring in shot. Be that as it may, I have no desire to run a points-condenser system. What are my best options as far as simplicity of construction/service/maintenance and availability of parts?

Tominator · Aug 19, 2012

Though I'm far from an expert the only thing you need worry about is that the HO firing order is different from the older 302/289 but I'm pretty sure you knew that.

If memory serves those came with a C4 or maybe an FMX. Get an AOD instead.

I'd use an early Ford electronic distributor. Lot's of them still in the jy and parts are cheap and plentiful. They are very reliable even by today's standards and far and away much better in every way than a points distributor.

Others will chime in. Going to be an interesting project!

adsm08 · Aug 19, 2012

Tominator said:
Though I'm far from an expert the only thing you need worry about is that the HO firing order is different from the older 302/289 but I'm pretty sure you knew that.

If memory serves those came with a C4 or maybe an FMX. Get an AOD instead.

Thanks Tom. I do know about the HO firing order being different, and the rotor spinning counter.

Like I said, I am not 100% sure of the ID of the existing trans, but I don't think it's a C4 (although I could be wrong). I only know two things about it for sure. It is a C-series, and it is NOT original to the car. It has "86 6 cylinder" written on the case with a paint pen.

85_Ranger4x4 · Aug 19, 2012

There are two C5 transmissions, in typical Ford tradition they can't just leave well enough alone and had to make things confusing.

http://mmerlinn.tripod.com/trans/notes/fbbnotfd.htm

The easiest way to ID them is the later C5 has a big dimple in the bottom of the pan for the filters pickup, the C4 is flat. The only major differences between the later C5 and the C4 is the torque converter and it has another valve body (with a different upper) with the extended pickup on the filter so it is pretty easy to convert them from one to another.

The fuel pump cam lobe doubles as an oil slinger, my '87 engine had one in place although it obviously didn't have a mechanical oil pump.

No big wo-who to put a carb on a HO, pretty straightforward. I do like Edelbrock carbs, they are pretty easy to adjust and don't dump gas all over the engine when you open them up. I have a 500CFM on my HO speced engine and it is plenty.

Optimally (IMO) would be to run the big Duraspark cap, rotor and adaptor collar. If they want to kinda keep the right look you can get a smaller cap and rotor for a early Duraspark vehicle. If they want to loose the brain box on the fender you can run the full points setup but with a Petronix Ignitor in the distributor in place of the points. It will all look stock on the outside but it is a full electronic ignition but they are very unforgiving for bad connections/wiring.

One other thing with the dizzy, if you have a roller cam ('86+ HOs will) you will need a steel gear on the dizzy. A flat tappet cam (like what the car would have had originally) takes a cast iron gear. You can get a DS dizzy for a '85 Mustang with a steel gear, it is the application I got mine for. Whenever I pull the dizzy I disable the ignition and crank it to confirm I have oil pressure and the oil pump driveshaft didn't get pushed down on accident... it is a phobia I have. :dntknw:

dieseldane · Aug 20, 2012

For ignition, I would use a Performance Distributors D.U.I. (Davis Unified Ignition) distributor. I have installed a couple of them, one on my 81 f-150, and one on a buddies 79 CJ-7. They use a HEI style ignition setup, and installation and wiring is super easy. The only wiring required for them is a single key-on power source, and a single signal wire for a tach if you wish to use one. You can order a generic one for your motor, or they will build one with a timing curve specifically dialed in for your setup using information you provide them about cam, intake, carb size, etc. Something else I thought was pretty cool, they test each distributor by itself and send you a sheet with test results for the timing for yours, and something I thought was cool that you don't see very often was the info was hand-written onto the specifications sheet.

http://www.performancedistributors.com/

EDIT: If for some reason you wanted to switch a part (I don't know why you would) or if something did fail, since this setup uses a GM HEI style distributor, parts (ignition module, coil) would be very plentiful, even if this company did go out of business, which I don't foresee happening.

adsm08 · Aug 20, 2012

85_Ranger4x4 said:
The easiest way to ID them is the later C5 has a big dimple in the bottom of the pan for the filters pickup, the C4 is flat.

Well, I was wrong, looks like this is a C4.

shane96ranger · Aug 20, 2012

The easiest way to ignite will be how Dieseldane mentioned, with an HEI dizzy. The Pertronix brand is pretty steep though. My buddy put one of these (link below) on his 49 Ford with a 5.0 out of a 90 Mustang. It's 55 dollars on Ebay, and very simple to hook up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-289-302-5-0-5-0L-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-COIL-Blue-Cap-/310422361533?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item48469d55bd&vxp=mtr

Are you planning on doing serpentine/reverse rotation for the FEAD? I guess most of that will depend on what accessories you are going to run.

85_Ranger4x4 · Aug 20, 2012

shane96ranger said:
The easiest way to ignite will be how Dieseldane mentioned, with an HEI dizzy. The Pertronix brand is pretty steep though. My buddy put one of these (link below) on his 49 Ford with a 5.0 out of a 90 Mustang. It's 55 dollars on Ebay, and very simple to hook up.

I think the ignitor was about $100 for the Delco distributor on my 1950's tractor (no other options besides going to a magneto) Unless someone pops the cap, rotor and dust cover off there is no way to tell anything has been changed.

I would prefer just about anything to the HEI dizzy just because it is so big and ugly. It isn't so bad on a GM where you can't see it but when it open the hood it is front and center on a SBF. If it is something I was going to show it would be something I would take into account.

Duraspark isn't hard to hook up at all.

shane96ranger · Aug 20, 2012

85_Ranger4x4 said:
I think the ignitor was about $100 for the Delco distributor on my 1950's tractor (no other options besides going to a magneto) Unless someone pops the cap, rotor and dust cover off there is no way to tell anything has been changed.

I would prefer just about anything to the HEI dizzy just because it is so big and ugly. It isn't so bad on a GM where you can't see it but when it open the hood it is front and center on a SBF. If it is something I was going to show it would be something I would take into account.

Here is another option if you don't like the looks of the coil in the cap. You can use an HEI module with a Duraspark dizzy (you would need one from an 85 GT for this build).

http://www.carbdford.com/tech/HEI/hei.htm

I personally don't think it looks all that bad.

85_Ranger4x4 said:
Duraspark isn't hard to hook up at all.

As long as you've got the right connectors, right? :icon_twisted:

85_Ranger4x4 · Aug 20, 2012

shane96ranger said:
As long as you've got the right connectors, right?

That does help with any electrical project. :icon_thumby:

adsm08 · Aug 20, 2012

shane96ranger said:
Are you planning on doing serpentine/reverse rotation for the FEAD? I guess most of that will depend on what accessories you are going to run.

Yes I am. I bought the engine complete in pieces, supposedly with about (allegedly) 10,000 miles on it. It was being "re-built" for swap into an LX which was then sold to a friend of mine because the guy needed diaper money. My friend then decided it would just be easier to swap the engine out of an 82 that he had traded his Taurus SHO Wagon for because the LX body was in better shape (and a convertible). He drove that Mexican monstrosity for about 2 weeks before buying a Fusion.

85_Ranger4x4 said:
That does help with any electrical project.

Nah, I just use scotch locks and cruise control recall harnesses for all that stuff.

adsm08 · Aug 28, 2012

Ok, next question...

I know Comp is a good name, but has anyone used these and are they correct (as in no other variations besides OEM roller vs retrofit roller)?

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/7826-16/10002/-1

The guy who tore down the engine did not understand the importance of keeping your pushrods (or any other parts) in order. I was able to clean the pistons up pretty well and find the numbers and arrows that mark the cylinder and orientation in the block. I am not willing to take a chance with the push rods.

shane96ranger · Aug 28, 2012

I don't think those are factory length. Pretty sure factory length is 6.272", those are 6.248".

EDIT: These are exactly like factory pushrods.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Racing/397/M-6565-L302/10002/-1

adsm08 · Aug 29, 2012

That's what I wanted to know. Thanks Shane!

shane96ranger · Aug 1, 2013

Did you ever complete this project?

5.0 Questions

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