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Any electricians in the house?


JoshT

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Don't know if this the right place to post this, but it is a NON-RBV tech question. As title suggests, I'm looking for a little help from someone knowledgeable about household electricity.

I want to build a portable power distribution center to use as a heavy duty multipurpose extension cord around the yard. I need to get 220V power about 150' away from the house to run welders, compressors, lights, etcetera. Primary use will be to get power to a temporary shelter where I currently work on my vehicles and other big projects. It might also be used for an RV hook-up on occasion if parents or other family want to visit for a while.

Given the loads this is likely to see in the foreseeable future, I'm thinking that 220V 50A service would be enough to handle anything I might need to power. Actually that should be over kill as most items are only likely to be run one at a time, but that's what the shop at dad's house is wired for and it currently handles every load I'm likely to use on this distribution center. By the time that more ampacity is needed I should be building a shop and burying 100A service to it or having a second meter installed for it, at which time this load center will still be useful to get to other parts of the yard.

My house has 200A service and a meter combo box that currently feeds the in house sub panel, as well as the A/C unit and well pump. This box still has 4 open slots and I'm figuring to install a 50A breaker to feed a 220V outlet at the house. This will provide me with a location to connect the distribution center and an outlet outside the house where I can connect a large generator in the event of extended power outages. From the outlet I'll have the 150' of wire feeding the distribution center.

What I don't know about this set-up is...
A) What gauge would I need to run 220V 50A the 150'? Also would I need 3 or 4 conductors to do this properly?
B) What type of wire/jacketing would I need for an extension cord set-up exposed to weather and sunlight?
C) What type of plug would be correct to use in this application?
D) Is this a bad idea and I’m being a complete idiot?
 


alwaysFlOoReD

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I've done similar using a generator as the source. I used some 8ga and have a 50A welder outlet, a 30A outlet, and two 15A house type outlets. One of the gotchas is that if you splice 110 off the 220 then the breaker isn't protecting anymore [the breaker is too big and won't trip when needed, say your drill starts to short]. If I was to do it again I would make the outlets end a sub-panel with breakers, then go to the outlets from there, all mounted on one piece of plywood.
edit; There are calculators online that give you the gauge you need for a particular length. And also what type of coating for the weather.
edit2; you need two hots and a ground for a welding outlet, but you need two hots, a ground AND a neutral for a stove or dryer type outlet, or a sub-panel.
edit3; I'm self taught....
 
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JoshT

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The plan was to have the "extension cord" feeding a sub panel on the power distribution center, then all of the outlets coming off of that.
 

alwaysFlOoReD

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I'd do that for my own use, realizing that insurance may not cover losses. I see the same setup on construction sites....

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alwaysFlOoReD

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By the way, here's a pic of what I threw together;uploadfromtaptalk1485117135286.jpg

I think I'll follow my own advice and use a sub panel, lol.

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RonD

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House power is delivered in two 110v Phases, can be 115v or even 120v, doesn't matter, will use 110v for the rest.
If you look in a main breaker panel you will see 3 larger wires coming in from the "pole" via electric meter
They are
110v phase 1
110v phase 2
Neutral
(this is the simplified version, there is split phase along with a few others, but for wiring purposes, 2 phase will be good enough, lol)

Grounding is done in the panel via local grounding rod

For 220v you need a 110v from each phase

If you look in the main panel you will see that every other breaker slot is one phase and the slots in between are the other phase
phase 1
phase 2
phase 1
phase 2
ect..........

This makes it easier to wire in Dryers or electric stoves/ovens that require 220volt
A double breaker is used providing 110v from each phase

So your sub panel will need both phases and Neutral and Ground

I would use 6gauge copper for 150ft, that will get about a 3% voltage drop
Ground wire would be good to have assuming wet conditions at some points during this cables use, lol, but up to you

And you can do a Breakout box/wire to get 110v(just wire one phase to 110v outlet) but I wouldn't use the 220v and 110v at the same time, higher power draw on one side of 220v breaker can trip it
 
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lil_Blue_Ford

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I would probably do like a 60 amp double breaker and run the wire to a sub panel. Be a little more money buying a panel and breakers, but then you can run a welder and grinder at the same time.

As far as being able to feed power from a generator into the house when there is a power outage, buy a proper generator panel and wire it in correctly. You can plug it into a 220v outlet and backfeed a panel, but that can be dangerous for people working to fix electric lines, so I would not recommend it.


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RonD

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You MUST have a Transfer switch if using a generator at an electric panel, if not for safety then do it because you don't want to be powering the whole Neighborhood :)
 

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Yep, Ron hit it...

About this time last year my garage power decided to short itself, the wires going to the garage were buried about 2" and apparently got hit by a shovel at some point and shorted when it rained (wouldn't you know the break in the wire was under a downspout...). I took that opportunity to run new wires to the garage and got out for ~$300 I think with everything. I used multi strand 6AWG wire for the red and black then an 8AWG for the green I believe, including the conduit I bought to bury it in it was about the same price as the other option. Since I was going for permanent I of course buried it but didn't go too crazy, I'm sure it wouldn't pass code but its about 1' down, about 5x as deep as it was...

I'm with the others, get yourself a small breaker box to run everything off of then put some outlets on your board, will give you more freedom for future things... a small box to hold about 6 breakers isn't too expensive and leaves you with lots of options, and is plenty for a shed anyway later on.

I've been intimidated by wiring, until I bought my house that is a wiring nightmare (2 out of like 20 breakers are labeled...) and it doesn't phase me much anymore but need a refresher sometimes... brilliant me even managed to wire in a new wall insert heater with live power to it without shocking myself :) I know it's a bad idea, but that no labels on breakers thing is annoying, and it was like 15* outside... Only one wire was dealt with at a time and wire nuts were on all live wires at all times until they were spliced.
 

lil_Blue_Ford

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I've been intimidated by wiring, until I bought my house that is a wiring nightmare (2 out of like 20 breakers are labeled...) and it doesn't phase me much anymore but need a refresher sometimes... brilliant me even managed to wire in a new wall insert heater with live power to it without shocking myself :) I know it's a bad idea, but that no labels on breakers thing is annoying, and it was like 15* outside... Only one wire was dealt with at a time and wire nuts were on all live wires at all times until they were spliced.

Yup, that's how I deal with working on hot wires, one at. Time and cap them with a wire nut when you're not working with it. And if you have to twist them together, just doesn't ground yourself while you do it. Of course now you can get those push connectors that replace wire nuts for 12 and 14 gauge wires. I avoided those until my electrician told me to use them. As far as labeling breakers go, you can get a tool to trace circuits that isn't overly expensive. I have one, plugs into outlets and I bought an adapter so that I can screw it into light sockets. Makes it easier to trace out circuits so everything can be labeled.



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86freebie

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dont know if this helps but that cord is 50amp 4 wire.

expensive but the right way to get power there. or hard wire the cord into a plywood mounted sub panel. but this cord is rated for what you are doing. check with a local home depot, etc. u would have to wire in a temp cord to the house panel to keep it an extension cord and I think if you mounted a sub panel and plugs to a sheet of plywood you keep it in the classification of "temporary"

https://www.amazon.com/CEP-Construction-Electrical-Products-6400M/dp/B000RMOIVI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1485440053&sr=8-2&keywords=temp+power+cord+ends

https://www.amazon.com/CEP-Construction-Electrical-Products-6506G/dp/B000KL2JE4/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1485440145&sr=8-5&keywords=temp+power+distribution+center
 

Denisefwd93

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Already made for just what the op is looking for. is 50 shore power connectors and cord. The length would however make 50 amps at 150 feet very expensive to run.

 

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