Timing chain???

Ranger Rod · Oct 7, 2016

In the old days we could rotate the distributor enough to find out if the timing chain were gone. I confess having no idea how to determine if this is my problem. She seemed to run fine to me until one morning it was a rough idle, gave it a shot of fuel and was good to drive across the yard and idled fine while loading the lawn tractor for transport, then stalled not to start again until sitting in the garage a couple days. Idle was rough when it randomly started and died again after returning to an idle after reving for a minute or so.

Pulled a plug and it has plenty of spark. Seems I have a bad gasket between manifold and Y pipe because there was flameage coming up from there when cranking it over indicating unburned fuel igniting in the pipe?

Survey says timing chain or some kind of electronic devise I know nothing about??? I have no access to diagnostic code tools.

RonD · Oct 7, 2016

1995 Ranger 3.0l won't have a distributor, it was the first year for distributorless ignition for the 3.0l.

Timing chain was never an issue with this engine(1986 to 2008), so very much a long shot diagnoses.

I would Clean the IAC valve and MAF sensor, both are very simple to do, many How-tos out there, videos and written.

IAC(idle air control) Valve is how all fuel injected engine computers set idle, it needs to be wide open for starting and then closed a bit to set idle high for cold engine and then closed even more for low idle with warmed up engine.
If IAC valve is stuck then air flow is limited and engine would struggle to start and run if cold.

MAF(mass air flow) sensor tells the computer how much air the engine is using, since there are no Jets(carb) the fuel is metered by fuel injectors, computer needs to know how much air there is so it adds the right amount of fuel when it opens the fuel injectors.
If MAF sensor is dirty then it can show less air than there is so computer is not adding enough fuel, so engine stumbles or dies.

Ranger Rod · Oct 8, 2016

RonD said:
1995 Ranger 3.0l won't have a distributor, it was the first year for distributorless ignition for the 3.0l.

Timing chain was never an issue with this engine(1986 to 2008), so very much a long shot diagnoses.

I would Clean the IAC valve and MAF sensor, both are very simple to do, many How-tos out there, videos and written.

IAC(idle air control) Valve is how all fuel injected engine computers set idle, it needs to be wide open for starting and then closed a bit to set idle high for cold engine and then closed even more for low idle with warmed up engine.
If IAC valve is stuck then air flow is limited and engine would struggle to start and run if cold.

MAF(mass air flow) sensor tells the computer how much air the engine is using, since there are no Jets(carb) the fuel is metered by fuel injectors, computer needs to know how much air there is so it adds the right amount of fuel when it opens the fuel injectors.
If MAF sensor is dirty then it can show less air than there is so computer is not adding enough fuel, so engine stumbles or dies.

Cleaning the IAC with carb cleaner was the fasted UN-timing chain job I ever did, thanks so much for the direction! To bad every fix can't be so smooth!

I also took off the part on the other side of the intake from the IAC which seems to cog onto the throtle shaft which passes through the intake,,, when I gently turned the cog with a large screw driver it seemed to give a crack and then moved free with a return motion to it, I ask is it ment to move free and return, did I fix it or break it?? Want to be sure of alignment so what is this part called so I can youtube for proper install please and thanks.

RonD · Oct 8, 2016

It reads like that was the TPS(throttle position sensor), it tells the computer when you want to "go fast" or "slow down" so it can add extra fuel or subtract extra fuel.

"crack sound" doesn't sound to good

It should have 3 wires plugged in
If you have a Volt Meter, and a sewing pin you can easily test it
3 wire connector should be plugged in to TPS
Put sewing pin into Center wire so you can test its voltage, pierce the insulation with the pin

Set Volt meter to DC Volts
Turn ignition key on, leave engine off
Ground the meter and test center wire
.69-.99volts is what it should read throttle closed, under 1 volt
slowly open throttle manually and voltage should start to go up
No jumping around or dropping out
At WOT(wide open throttle) you should see above 4.5volts, 4.50-4.99volts

repeat opening and closing a few times to make sure there are no dead spots or shorts

Computer sends TPS 5 volts on top wire, so a short would show 5 volts or 0volts(short to Ground, the lower wire)

Ranger Rod · Oct 10, 2016

Ranger Rod said:
Cleaning the IAC with carb cleaner was the fasted UN-timing chain job I ever did, thanks so much for the direction! To bad every fix can't be so smooth!

I also took off the part on the other side of the intake from the IAC which seems to cog onto the throtle shaft which passes through the intake,,, when I gently turned the cog with a large screw driver it seemed to give a crack and then moved free with a return motion to it, I ask is it ment to move free and return, did I fix it or break it?? Want to be sure of alignment so what is this part called so I can youtube for proper install please and thanks.

OOPS, not fixed like I thought, today I more than started and reved,,, backed it out of the garage no problem and let it sit to warm up while doing other odd jobs for maybe half an hour. When I finally put it in gear again to move to unloading ramp to get the lawn tractor off, blau she snuffed same like before cleaning the IAC and still hasn't restarted forcing me to push her back into garage.

I am thinking it must have something to do with a warm vs cold engine?? Any thoughts??? Thanks.

RonD · Oct 10, 2016

Do 50/50 test anytime there is a no start

Take air tube off intake, open throttle, spray gasoline, ether(quick start), or Carb Cleaner into the intake.
Try to start engine

If it starts and dies then fuel is the problem
If it doesn't start then spark is the problem
50/50

AllanD · Oct 10, 2016

As any Boy Scout/fireman/mechanic will say you gotta have three things for Fire:
a)Air
b)Fuel
c)a source of ignition

If any one of the three is missing....

As for a timing chain failing on a '95 3.0? Not likely, they fail about as often as flaming monkeys fly out of the pope's butt while giving a televised speech...
(Actually the flying monkeys thing is more likely)

Typically a 3.0 will die of something else first...

Ranger Rod · Oct 12, 2016

AllanD said:
As any Boy Scout/fireman/mechanic will say you gotta have three things for Fire:
a)Air
b)Fuel
c)a source of ignition

If any one of the three is missing....

As for a timing chain failing on a '95 3.0? Not likely, they fail about as often as flaming monkeys fly out of the pope's butt while giving a televised speech...
(Actually the flying monkeys thing is more likely)

Typically a 3.0 will die of something else first...

As the result of a cracked head some years ago a cam shaft bearing became washed and hence spun. At that time I simply procured a short block from the wreckers (no clue as to the mileage), found a good replacement head and rebuilt the pair. I recall seeing through a cavity somehow that the timing chain had some slack at that juncture, however, being financially embarrassed like so many other common folk, I elected to risk leaving it as is. I think what I am hearing from you is that these engines are capable of making compensations electronically to such a large degree that I need not consider that as the problem in any way shape of form?

In so far as the flaming monkeys, anyone whom has had a severe case of hemorrhoids might argue that such a thing has happened to them. haha

RonD · Oct 12, 2016

They will normally have 1/2" to 3/4" slack when pushing against the chain at mid-point, so not a concern if it had "some" slack.

3.0l Vulcan has no electronic control of crank/cam timing, it is strictly a mechanical setup that effects compression ratio.

The CPS(cam position sensor) signal to computer is an electronic pulse, and computer does have some latitude in correcting that signal to match actual valve timing for fuel injection and spark timing

Ranger Rod · Oct 18, 2016

RonD said:
Do 50/50 test anytime there is a no start

Take air tube off intake, open throttle, spray gasoline, ether(quick start), or Carb Cleaner into the intake.
Try to start engine

If it starts and dies then fuel is the problem
If it doesn't start then spark is the problem
50/50

I finally found time to do the 50/50 test with ether. Firstly I had started the engine which ran very rough, was able to back it up so tail pipe was out of doors so it could run to operating temp where it was previously cutting out. Having taken a moment to look again for vacuumed leaks and found the line from the oil filler collar to the air intake tube had come off while tinkering with / cleaning the MAF and IAC. Plugging the line in stalled the engine right away and doing the 50 / 50 with quick start did not produce combustion.

I am not sure what reference to spark has been sighted given I had found spark at the plug near the beginning of the journey? Is there some kind of electronic ignition module which might not be functioning correctly and where would that be found? I see some sort of module under the plug leads where the distributor cap would have been in days of old, should I test this somehow?

RonD · Oct 18, 2016

On 1995 and up Rangers the ICM(ignition control module) is in the computer.

What is in the old distributor location is the CPS(cam position sensor), Not sure it can cause a no start on a 1995 model, it is mostly used for fuel injector timing.

When an engine loses the distributor(on purpose, lol) a CKP(crank position) sensor is installed for spark and fuel injector timing.
CKP sensor will be located on the front of the engine near the crank pulley, behind the pulley you would see what "looks like" a gear with teeth, that is called a tone wheel.
This tone wheel will have 1 tooth every 10degs, and one missing tooth, the missing tooth denotes #1 Top Dead Center(TDC) to the CKP and so the computer.
This is the Big Kahuna of engine sensors, computer doesn't even know you are trying to start the engine until it starts getting the CKP sensor pulses.
And that starts spark and fuel injectors, CPS fine tunes spark and injector timing.

CKP sensors rarely fail and are even less likely to be intermittent.

CPS housings on the 3.0ls do need to be replaced every 80k-100k miles, but they usually start to squeal at that time and don't often cause rough running.

If there was a CPS failure there would also be a CEL(check engine light) because CPS timing doesn't match CKP sensor timing.

I would replace your PCV Valve, and clean its hose.
The hose that you put back on is the Vent hose for the PCV system.
PCV Valve is mostly closed when engine is idling, then as vacuum drops in intake, accelerating, the PCV Valve opens to pull oil vapor and blow-by gases from the engine, and burn it in the cylinders.
When you put that hose back on at idle nothing should have happened, it is just a fresh air vent to prevent to much negative pressure in the engine from PCV Valve.
So reads like PCV Valve is stuck open, so a vacuum leak at idle.

Ranger Rod · Oct 19, 2016

RonD said:
On 1995 and up Rangers the ICM(ignition control module) is in the computer.

What is in the old distributor location is the CPS(cam position sensor), Not sure it can cause a no start on a 1995 model, it is mostly used for fuel injector timing.

When an engine loses the distributor(on purpose, lol) a CKP(crank position) sensor is installed for spark and fuel injector timing.
CKP sensor will be located on the front of the engine near the crank pulley, behind the pulley you would see what "looks like" a gear with teeth, that is called a tone wheel.
This tone wheel will have 1 tooth every 10degs, and one missing tooth, the missing tooth denotes #1 Top Dead Center(TDC) to the CKP and so the computer.
This is the Big Kahuna of engine sensors, computer doesn't even know you are trying to start the engine until it starts getting the CKP sensor pulses.
And that starts spark and fuel injectors, CPS fine tunes spark and injector timing.

CKP sensors rarely fail and are even less likely to be intermittent.

CPS housings on the 3.0ls do need to be replaced every 80k-100k miles, but they usually start to squeal at that time and don't often cause rough running.

If there was a CPS failure there would also be a CEL(check engine light) because CPS timing doesn't match CKP sensor timing.

I would replace your PCV Valve, and clean its hose.
The hose that you put back on is the Vent hose for the PCV system.
PCV Valve is mostly closed when engine is idling, then as vacuum drops in intake, accelerating, the PCV Valve opens to pull oil vapor and blow-by gases from the engine, and burn it in the cylinders.
When you put that hose back on at idle nothing should have happened, it is just a fresh air vent to prevent to much negative pressure in the engine from PCV Valve.
So reads like PCV Valve is stuck open, so a vacuum leak at idle.

Replaced Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve to no avail but it once again started right up being a cold engine. Ran a tad different this time however, idling she seemed to surge about 500 rpm's higher for a split second then back down to struggle mode over and over, applied the throttle some to plane out only to have it snuff when letting the throttle go back to idle position.

I am now having suspicions’ about the cam shaft, what are the odds here? And if this is a possibility, how do I inspect or trouble shoot the cam please? My old 85 Chevy 350 4 bolt main actually shot fuel out the carb which ignited scorching the hood which was rather evident. In this case unburned fuel is igniting in the exhaust manifold, same theory as the Chevy but on the other end of the cycle?

Thank you for sharing your wisdom btw!

Ranger Rod · Oct 21, 2016

Ranger Rod said:
Replaced Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve to no avail but it once again started right up being a cold engine. Ran a tad different this time however, idling she seemed to surge about 500 rpm's higher for a split second then back down to struggle mode over and over, applied the throttle some to plane out only to have it snuff when letting the throttle go back to idle position.

I am now having suspicions’ about the cam shaft, what are the odds here? And if this is a possibility, how do I inspect or trouble shoot the cam please? My old 85 Chevy 350 4 bolt main actually shot fuel out the carb which ignited scorching the hood which was rather evident. In this case unburned fuel is igniting in the exhaust manifold, same theory as the Chevy but on the other end of the cycle?

Thank you for sharing your wisdom btw!

With the heads having relatively low mileage (27.000 klicks) since being rebuilt, I wonder could I be looking at a bad rocker / push rod even though there are no distinctive / recognizable sounds thereabouts? I had done an oil change just weeks prior to failure and did not see any fragments in the catch basin.

RonD · Oct 21, 2016

If you have a Volt Meter and a sewing pin I would test the TPS(Throttle Position Sensor)

It will be on the opposite side of the upper intake from the throttle cable linkage.
It will have 3 wires.
Disconnect wires and make sure contacts are clean and dry.
Reconnect wires to TPS
Use the sewing pin to pierce the top wire
Set Volt Meter to DC Volts
Connect Meter to a Ground, engine metal or battery Negative
Turn on the key, leave engine off
test voltage on top wire, should be 4.8 to 5.2 volts
Remove pin and pierce Middle wire
test voltage, with throttle closed it should be under 1 volt, .69-.99 volt is the range
Now open throttle manually while watching the voltage.
Voltage should go up slowly as throttle is opened, no jumping around, nice and steady
At WOT(wide open throttle) you should see above 4.5volts, 4.5 to 5.0 volts is the range

Ranger Rod · Oct 22, 2016

RonD said:
If you have a Volt Meter and a sewing pin I would test the TPS(Throttle Position Sensor)

It will be on the opposite side of the upper intake from the throttle cable linkage.
It will have 3 wires.
Disconnect wires and make sure contacts are clean and dry.
Reconnect wires to TPS
Use the sewing pin to pierce the top wire
Set Volt Meter to DC Volts
Connect Meter to a Ground, engine metal or battery Negative
Turn on the key, leave engine off
test voltage on top wire, should be 4.8 to 5.2 volts
Remove pin and pierce Middle wire
test voltage, with throttle closed it should be under 1 volt, .69-.99 volt is the range
Now open throttle manually while watching the voltage.
Voltage should go up slowly as throttle is opened, no jumping around, nice and steady
At WOT(wide open throttle) you should see above 4.5volts, 4.5 to 5.0 volts is the range

Failed the test and replaced TPS to achieve good readings with volt meter, this smoothed out the surging thing. When fiddling with the new part the action between the old and new was very clearly night and day thanks. Back to square one where she ran a spell while I put a charge back in the batery but snuffed once I put it into gear, would not start thereafter, damn.

I would like to check the dpfe sensor to rule it out, can I test the dpfe sensor with a needle and volt meter? Is it a valid concideration here, or is there perhapes a heat riser / choke system on this baby? So weird to me she dies when put in gear and, won't catch again when slightly warm.

Timing chain???

Member

Official TRS AI

Member

Official TRS AI

Member

Official TRS AI

TRS Technical Staff

Member

Official TRS AI

Member

Official TRS AI

Member

Member

Official TRS AI

Member

Sponsored Ad

Sponsored Ad

Today's birthdays

Member & Vendor Upgrades

Truck of The Month

Recently Featured

Follow TRS On Instagram

TRS Events

25th Anniversary Sponsors

Check Out The TRS Store

Sponsored Ad

Sponsored Ad

Sponsored Ad

Amazon Deals