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getting warm when playing in the mud


BubbaTC

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so I have a 84 (was 2.8) 4x4 that has a 2.9 swap before I bought it. I have pulled the mechanical fan and put a electric one on "rated" for 3000 cfm. When im playing in my field, it gets pretty hot (to the top of the normal markings) with the fan running the whole time. Ive put a new 180 thermostat, coolant, and WP. Im thinking the radiator is the brass one from the 2.8 and I need to get a 2.9 one or even the 4.0 rad. Any ideas?
 


RonD

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I would check the radiator flow.
Remove rad cap on cold engine then start up engine, let engine warm up, you can put rad cap on but not tight, once upper rad hose is warm(t-stat open) while engine is idling squeeze upper then squeeze lower rad hose.

Now have someone raise RPMs to 2,000-2,500 and repeat squeezing of both hoses
If lower hose gets alot softer then rad is plugged up.
If coolant starts coming out of loose rad cap then rad is plugged up.
The WP pushes coolant into top hose and sucks coolant from lower hose after engine is warmed up, if lower hose gets soft then WP is sucking more coolant than rad can easily pass thru, if coolant is pushed out the rad cap then WP is pushing in coolant faster than rad can pass it to lower hose.

Also check the fins on the front of the rad, air flow can be reduce by bugs and mud :)

And just FYI, 180 t-stat doesn't help with overheating, the operating temp of the engine should be 195-200 for best MPG and oil cleaning(burn off of contaminates, fuel and water).
Ford temp gauge should be calibrated to about 210-220degF at 1/2 way, so gauge should show just below 1/2 in normal driving.
The t-stat maintains the lower operating temp, nothing more.
If cooling system has a problem the 180degF t-stat might delay overheating by a few seconds but nothing more.
Because at 200degF the 180 or 195 t-stat would both be open all the way, so same flow above 195degF.
 
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BubbaTC

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I have no prob with it getting to warm driving down the road or at a idle with the fan running. Its just when im playing pretty hard in a muddy field. I can stop and let the truck idle with the fan on and it will cool back down after a few mins.

Fins are fine and not plugged up with mud or anything. I have had the cap off while reving it and water flow is pretty good. Ill try the hose trick tonight. Im leaning more to the rad being plugged up.
 

RonD

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High engine load causes more cylinder heat generated, lower speed means less air cooling, when you combine the two you are testing the limits of the cooling system.
E-fans or belt fans are fine for cooling rads in good shape, but nothing beats air speed when driving at 60MPH, lol.
Even a good rad will allow some above normal heating if towing a heavy load up a long grade, i.e. lower speed/higher load.
But it won't "over" heat, just run warmer that "normal".
If you had a belt fan I would suspect bad fan clutch first, but with e-fan I would say rad problem.
You do have a fan shroud with the e-fan, right?
The shroud allows for the full cooling potential of the rad, without it only a part of the rad is getting the full air flow of the fan.

The high load/low speed also heats up automatic trans fluid, which adds to the rads cooling load if it is also the trans cooler.



You can do the "Flip Test" on a rad after it is removed.

With radiator out, put cap and drain plug back on.
Place rad so cooling tubes run up and down
Block lower hose outlet with your hand
Fill rad with water using upper hose outlet
Stop filling when full :)

Remove hand from lower outlet
Water should exit quickly, upper and lower openings are same size so air won't slow it down.
after water stops flowing tilt rad a little to get the rest of the water out.

Now the test
Flip rad upside down
No water should come out
If any water comes out it could only come from blocked cooling tubes.

You can often lay rad flat and fill it with CLR and warm water solution, let it sit 20 minutes then flush, repeat as you see fit, and this will get some flow back.
But once the build up starts it is just best to bite the bullet and get new rad, and change coolant every two years to prevent future build up.
 
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BubbaTC

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No I don't have a shroud (didn't have on the truck with mechanical fan). Ill see if I can find a shroud laying around somewhere. If that doesn't work then pull the rad and check flow
 

RonD

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Adding the shroud will help, and can help alot depending on how much of the rad is not covered by the fan now.

Any fan pulls air in the easiest way, the shroud makes the air passages in the rad the easiest way because sides are blocked, it also causes air to be pulled in thru all the air passages, the center still gets more air flow but sides get some flow not 0, so full rad cooling is available.

But Shrouds are not the be all end all, lol, I have run engines for years without them, just not since the mid '80s, seems they saved some money by shrinking the rad down so it just meets cooling requirements if all parts are new :)
 

BubbaTC

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ya I have a 16inch fan on a 18inch core
 

RonD

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2.8l radiator is list as 18x18 with 3 rows
2.9l rad is listed as 18x18 with 1 row
So 2.8l has bigger fluid capacity, which makes sense, the 2.8l had a bad coolant passage head design and developed hot spots.

18x18 = 324sq inches-rad size
16x16 = 256sq inches-fan size

difference is 68sq inches-uncovered/unused part of rad
That is a 21% loss in cooling capacity, that is just the math you would still get some cooling from general air flow so 21% would just be sitting still.
This is why shrouds are used.
 
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BubbaTC

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ok so if I have to replace this radiator, should I have it boiled out and try to save it or get a 2.9L or go 4.0L?
 

RonD

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If it is plastic then no boiling, and rads are not too expensive now, labor is, so even if it can be boiled and cleaned the labor to do it would be more than new rad.
If you were restoring a classic car/truck then boiling to fix original rad would be the better option.

If you have a 2.9l engine then 2.9l rad would be what to put in, BUT....you have the hoses and rad support for 2.8l rad so it would be a good option if not too expensive vs 2.9l
 

BubbaTC

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its a all brass radiator. would 2.9 one fit in with no mod?
 

BubbaTC

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update: pick up a full shroud from the junk yard last week and installed it, no over heating probs so far but haven't be to hard on it while messing around. Hopefully going to go out this weekend and get it a proper test
 

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