Found The Problem with my 2.0

gungfudan · Apr 17, 2016

So below you will see what happen to one of my pistons in my 2.0L

I do have a question I need to know if anything can be done about the oil canister hole on the block. Can it be plugged or can it be ran to the valve cover? Did the 2.3L have the same issue with blow by? how do they deal with this in the racing world? (not that I use this truck for racing)

RonD · Apr 17, 2016

Never pull part a Lima 2.0l
Oil canister?

Does it have the old vent hole in lower block to let blow-by out and drip oil on the road, lol, that was what the pre-PCV engines had.

Pinging/knocking(pre-detonation) can/will cause that damage, too Lean a fuel mix, or carbon build up pre-igniting fuel.

Google: engine damage from pre-detonation images

All engines have blow-by, you can't make a good seal using sliding metal parts, i.e. metal rings against metal cylinder walls, they will all leak.
As engine gets higher miles, 250k+, the blow-by will increase.

As blow-by passes the rings it vaporizes some of the oil on the cylinder walls and piston sides, that's where the oil vapor comes from.
PCV system was added to pull that oil vapor up to the valve cover area and then out and into the intake to be burned.
Most heads have large enough oil drain passages to allow the blow-by vapor to be pulled up to valve cover area.
Maybe the 2.0l doesn't.

And yes you could put a hose on that vent to the valve cover.

PCV valve needs to be correct for the engine, it is a reverse valve, high vacuum(idle) closes the PCV Valve, idle has little blow-by.
As vacuum decreases(RPMs are increased) then PCV valve opens more.

PCV system

Mark_88 · Apr 17, 2016

Wow...no wonder eh!

I wouldn't run the oil can up to the valve cover since that simply pushes more junk into the engine...moving it around...and the oil vapours sound like something you want to try to burn off with combustion since it helps oil the children's pink lungs...(just kidding).

You can consider an external oil catch can for your application especially once the engine is rebuilt. This would pull the oil out of the combustion and collect it...and with a rebuilt engine you shouldn't be seeing too much in the can for a long time.

I had a link to one a guy built in my "tech article"...lol...that never got published because it just became a mess of hoses...but I will see if I can paste it here.

This won't get rid of the catch can but merely bypass the oil from being burned off...

EDIT:

Found it...here is the whole thread...I think you commented on it years ago Dan...but about the 8th or 9th post down there are pics posted...also the one that Shane posted can be bought and installed easily enough...I tried those but mine did not have the proper filter to remove oil...it was a water separator and they are NOT the same thing...they look identical but the filter is what makes or breaks them with oil separation.

Ooops...thanks Richard...

Picture of the custom built one...
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20120928/6amutu6e.jpg

Shane's link to the sellers site...
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sda-555-3710/overview/

And this is my post...look at number post #10 for the images from 89Ranger5.0...even though it works with all engines...
http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131097

alwaysFlOoReD · Apr 17, 2016

Hey Mark, I don't "see" [or whatever you want to call it, lol] the link.

Edit; Thanks Mark.

gungfudan · Apr 18, 2016

Mark_88 said:
Wow...no wonder eh!

I wouldn't run the oil can up to the valve cover since that simply pushes more junk into the engine...moving it around...and the oil vapours sound like something you want to try to burn off with combustion since it helps oil the children's pink lungs...(just kidding).

You can consider an external oil catch can for your application especially once the engine is rebuilt. This would pull the oil out of the combustion and collect it...and with a rebuilt engine you shouldn't be seeing too much in the can for a long time.

I had a link to one a guy built in my "tech article"...lol...that never got published because it just became a mess of hoses...but I will see if I can paste it here.

This won't get rid of the catch can but merely bypass the oil from being burned off...

EDIT:

Found it...here is the whole thread...I think you commented on it years ago Dan...but about the 8th or 9th post down there are pics posted...also the one that Shane posted can be bought and installed easily enough...I tried those but mine did not have the proper filter to remove oil...it was a water separator and they are NOT the same thing...they look identical but the filter is what makes or breaks them with oil separation.

Ooops...thanks Richard...

Picture of the custom built one...
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20120928/6amutu6e.jpg

Shane's link to the sellers site...
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sda-555-3710/overview/

And this is my post...look at number post #10 for the images from 89Ranger5.0...even though it works with all engines...
http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131097

The reason I asked about the oil problem is if you remember this engine has been rebuilt twice! This second time it actually ran for a year and three months, three months out of the warranty, but that is beside the point. The engine was using or dumping, probably both, a quart a week on the second rebuild. I have done and did do an oil catch can mod on the original and this rebuilt one. I just didn't know if there was a way around it. I will probably try to do a cleaner looking setup this time around.

In another note the cylinder walls do not appear to be scarred at all. My dad said I should go with all new pistons. There is only one that is damaged as you can see. So what do you think I should do? I don't mind replacing all of them. I think it is a good idea but also need to save money but don't want to end up on the side of the road again. I would have it rebuilt by some one else but after all the trouble I have had I don't trust any of the local rebuilders around here. Not to mention all the loose nuts and bolts that we found while taking the engine out. Motor mount bolts, valve cover bolts, a head bolt ect.....

Thanks for the replies

gungfudan · Apr 18, 2016

Another thing, if you remember I switched over to a Webber carb and got rid of all my vacuum lines except the one that goes from the carburetor to the distributor. Here is my question; I had it originally hooked up with the vacuum line from the carburetor going to the main vac on my intake manifold then to the distributor advance. When the shop put the engine back in after it was rebuilt the second time I was told that the carburetor needed to be hooked up directly to the distributor advance because it was a ported vacuum. Now if that is the case how does it advance the distributor? I say this due to the fact that the timing is 6 degrees BTC and originally when you would hook up the vacuum it would go from sounding like a tractor to purring like a kitten. It does not do that when hooked up directly from carb to distributor. So am I missing something?

Mark thanks for the links.

tomw · Apr 18, 2016

As much as you are spending having this one fixed, you might be better off buying one from craigslist for $300 and running it until it breaks.
The Lima is a long living engine(Ford inline engine have been good since the 1950's - no, excellent) with many reaching 300,000 miles with little more than tune-up work and oil changes.
The 'mechanics' that did your last work apparently did not do a good job. Beyond that, it failed with low(relative) mileage, so something was wrong.
Ported vacuum allows the timing to be 'slowed' at idle speed as the vacuum advance is not being used. Timing will be mechanical from distributor position. Once the throttle plate is opened, vacuum in the venturi, above the throttle plate, will be applied to the diaphragm, and the vacuum advance will start to work. If you have a poor idle, and all the 'bits' are good, maybe your base timing is wrong. Back when timing was set and adjusted regularly as points wore and were replaced, timing was set, in most cases, with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged, engine hot.(so it would idle)
If the cylinder walls are good, get a set of pistons and rings, and replace them. Do it yourself. Get a torque wrench so you can tighten the head bolts appropriately. You will also need a metric 3/8" drive socket set and a set of box/open end wrenches, along with a few screwdrivers. That's about all you actually need. Ring compressor would be nice to install the rings w/o breakage.
Check the rod and main bearing inserts. Rock auto has Lima parts on sale for rod bearings and gaskets, and piston/ring combos. At least for a 1985 model.
If the truck is 'average', why not just put in a used engine, and call it a day until you have a truck that is above average?
tom

gungfudan · Apr 18, 2016

tomw said:
If you have a poor idle, and all the 'bits' are good, maybe your base timing is wrong. Back when timing was set and adjusted regularly as points wore and were replaced, timing was set, in most cases, with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged, engine hot.(so it would idle)
If the cylinder walls are good, get a set of pistons and rings, and replace them. Do it yourself. Get a torque wrench so you can tighten the head bolts appropriately. You will also need a metric 3/8" drive socket set and a set of box/open end wrenches, along with a few screwdrivers. That's about all you actually need. Ring compressor would be nice to install the rings w/o breakage.
Check the rod and main bearing inserts. Rock auto has Lima parts on sale for rod bearings and gaskets, and piston/ring combos. At least for a 1985 model.
If the truck is 'average', why not just put in a used engine, and call it a day until you have a truck that is above average?
tom

I have all the tools to put the engine back together I am not to worried about that except a few specialty tools.

As far as the timing my 88' 2.0 chilton's manual said to take the vacuum line off the distributor plug the distributor end and set timing to 6 degrees BTDC then put the vacuum line back on and the vacuum advances the distributor. I have done it several times and with the vacuum port in the carb itself it just stays at the same idle so..... Should I hook that vacuum line back up to the main vacuum on the intake manifold or hook it up straight from the carb?

gungfudan · Apr 18, 2016

You might have given me my answer I understand how the ported vacuum works from your explanation but don't know if you are saying either way is fine or it needs to be this way.

Sorry just trying to understand

Thanks for your reply

Mark_88 · Apr 18, 2016

I remember looking into this very thing and there was a big discussion about what one was better. My 2.0 did not run right on ported (carb) vacuum and would not advance. It was sluggish until I put it on the intake vacuum and I did not play with it at all after that...because it ran and idled just fine...even without the slow idle kickdown or a choke at startup.

I was running a different carb and maybe...just maybe...the port that I was using was not the correct one...or it was not working the way it should have worked.

Your carb is fairly new so maybe it will work better...properly...the original Asian carb did work properly from a carb port but when I swapped that out (because it never did run right or well) was when I asked the same question...

So...if it runs good on intake vacuum then I don't see a reason to even bother...other than it might be a bit more powerful if the distributor is advancing at the correct time...and I didn't notice any power loss when using the intake vac...

On another note...from the looks of the piston and what RonD said...your carb may have been running too lean as some point which resulted in the damage...and may have caused the oil blowing issue you ran into. Like my engine was running great until I started abusing it by hauling too much weight around. Which was why I finally decided to go with the fuel injection setup...although I hate the idea of so many sensors...it if gives it the proper fuel levels to run effectively I will deal with the extra stuff...

Although I drove my 1989 Tempo for 14 years on Fuel Injection with barely any issues and never used a drop of oil...I didn't ever need to even think about how it worked because it was just so reliable...

gungfudan · Apr 18, 2016

Mark_88 said:
I remember looking into this very thing and there was a big discussion about what one was better. My 2.0 did not run right on ported (carb) vacuum and would not advance. It was sluggish until I put it on the intake vacuum and I did not play with it at all after that...because it ran and idled just fine...even without the slow idle kickdown or a choke at startup.

I was running a different carb and maybe...just maybe...the port that I was using was not the correct one...or it was not working the way it should have worked.

Your carb is fairly new so maybe it will work better...properly...the original Asian carb did work properly from a carb port but when I swapped that out (because it never did run right or well) was when I asked the same question...

So...if it runs good on intake vacuum then I don't see a reason to even bother...other than it might be a bit more powerful if the distributor is advancing at the correct time...and I didn't notice any power loss when using the intake vac...

On another note...from the looks of the piston and what RonD said...your carb may have been running too lean as some point which resulted in the damage...and may have caused the oil blowing issue you ran into. Like my engine was running great until I started abusing it by hauling too much weight around. Which was why I finally decided to go with the fuel injection setup...although I hate the idea of so many sensors...it if gives it the proper fuel levels to run effectively I will deal with the extra stuff...

Although I drove my 1989 Tempo for 14 years on Fuel Injection with barely any issues and never used a drop of oil...I didn't ever need to even think about how it worked because it was just so reliable...

Well I can say this it didn't seem to run quite as good with it just using the ported vacuum. So once I get it back together and running we will see. I don't know if it was running too lean. I am thinking of getting a color tune kit from LMC to get the mixture right.

Captain Ledd · Apr 19, 2016

I had an '89 Cavalier as my first car, and it was missing some seal around the PCV valve, and was literally sucking up all the valve cover oil through the valve. That stupid thing went through 2 quarts a tank at it's peak. Somehow, never made a blip of smoke, but a short while after seeing the car to my brother (oil issue rectified) it stranded itself due to a fully plugged catalytic converter.

RonD · Apr 19, 2016

This is a long discussed topic, vacuum advance and intake or ported, lol.

There actually is a correct answer but it is engine specific, and a few variables are involved.

It is often said ported vacuum was used for lower emissions, which is partly true.
Car makers used lower compression engines which have bad emissions cold, so ported vacuum was used to warm them up faster.

First, all distributors(in this example) have centrifugal advance, weights and springs.
This advances spark timing based on RPM.

Why do we even need to change spark timing?
An air/fuel mix has a burn rate, from the time it is ignited until it reaches explosive force.
The burn rate for the most part is a fixed amount of time, based on the mixture, i.e. 14.7:1.
You want the explosive force part to happen at about 15deg After TDC, on most engines, this gives the piston the best leverage on the crank, earlier is less power later is less power, before TDC is minus power

.

Because the burn rate time is fix but the RPMs are not, the faster the piston is moving the more advanced you want the spark so fuel mix has time to burn then explode after TDC.
At red-line RPM say 6,000 the spark advance might be 36deg on centrifugal advance.

So why vacuum advance?
Air/Fuel mix is why
Idle and cruising air/fuel mix is "lean", not pinging/knocking lean but not Rich.
So the burn rate is the same, just the RPMs are different which centrifugal advance takes care of.

When you step on the gas the air/fuel mix gets Rich, 13:1, instantly, and a Rich air/fuel mix has a shorter burn rate, so if burn rate changes spark advance needs to change, so vacuum advance was added.
Intake vacuum is highest at idle and cruising so it holds advance for the slower burning Leaner mix.
When you open the throttle fuel mix gets richer and vacuum drops, vacuum advance is reduced for the faster burning mix.

Ported vacuum, with lower compression engines you need them to heat up faster and stay warmer to lower emissions.
With less vacuum advance the slower burning mix explodes closer to TDC, less power but more heat is generated.

Many car makers used both, ported when engine was cold and then intake vacuum when engine was warned up.

Both have their points for economy and performance, correct choice is engine and driver based

gungfudan · Apr 19, 2016

RonD said:
This is a long discussed topic, vacuum advance and intake or ported, lol.

There actually is a correct answer but it is engine specific, and a few variables are involved.

It is often said ported vacuum was used for lower emissions, which is partly true.
Car makers used lower compression engines which have bad emissions cold, so ported vacuum was used to warm them up faster.

First, all distributors(in this example) have centrifugal advance, weights and springs.
This advances spark timing based on RPM.

Why do we even need to change spark timing?
An air/fuel mix has a burn rate, from the time it is ignited until it reaches explosive force.
The burn rate for the most part is a fixed amount of time, based on the mixture, i.e. 14.7:1.
You want the explosive force part to happen at about 15deg After TDC, on most engines, this gives the piston the best leverage on the crank, earlier is less power later is less power, before TDC is minus power .

Because the burn rate time is fix but the RPMs are not, the faster the piston is moving the more advanced you want the spark so fuel mix has time to burn then explode after TDC.
At red-line RPM say 6,000 the spark advance might be 36deg on centrifugal advance.

So why vacuum advance?
Air/Fuel mix is why
Idle and cruising air/fuel mix is "lean", not pinging/knocking lean but not Rich.
So the burn rate is the same, just the RPMs are different which centrifugal advance takes care of.

When you step on the gas the air/fuel mix gets Rich, 13:1, instantly, and a Rich air/fuel mix has a shorter burn rate, so if burn rate changes spark advance needs to change, so vacuum advance was added.
Intake vacuum is highest at idle and cruising so it holds advance for the slower burning Leaner mix.
When you open the throttle fuel mix gets richer and vacuum drops, vacuum advance is reduced for the faster burning mix.

Ported vacuum, with lower compression engines you need them to heat up faster and stay warmer to lower emissions.
With less vacuum advance the slower burning mix explodes closer to TDC, less power but more heat is generated.

Many car makers used both, ported when engine was cold and then intake vacuum when engine was warned up.

Both have their points for economy and performance, correct choice is engine and driver based

So from what I just read and understand. If I hook the ported vacuum to the main vacuum on the intake and take the hose from the intake main vacuum hook it up to the distributor it will function the way it is suppose to.

I have a question on the timing I just found out my pistons are 40 over. Because they are 40 over does that change the timing?

gungfudan · Apr 19, 2016

also where is a good place to buy pistons from on the internet?

Found The Problem with my 2.0

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