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Manual Transmission Problem - Diagnosis/Fix?


Athos

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First time here on these forums - hoping someone can give a little advice. I've spoken to a couple mechanics and done some homework online, but I know just enough to be dangerous.

Specs:
1991 Ford Ranger Std Cab
2.3L
5-speed manual (I believe this means I have a Mazda M5OD-R1)
240,000 miles (I bought it Oct/Nov of last year. The previous owner bought it in 1993, and claimed the odometer had rolled over twice.)

Synopsis:
Last week, I went to start up the truck (relatively cold, it had been moved from one parking lot to another an hour earlier), and it would not go into first gear with the clutch fully depressed. Attempting to put it in reverse resulted in a grinding sound. The truck was towed to a shop. It worked perfectly. They looked at it, drove it around, and could not locate the problem.

After picking it up, the truck was driven by my father for an hour or so, and it acted up again - this time while driving. While shifting from gear to gear, he was locked out, stuck in neutral. Towed again, worked when it got to the shop, once again they couldn't find the problem. I picked up the truck and drove it home without incident.

This is my daily driver, and despite its high mileage, the truck is in excellent condition. I've put ~7500 miles on it since I bought it, driving a 40 mile round trip to school and back. Right now, however, I'm hesitant to take it out since the issue could cause serious problems on the road.

Second/third/fourth opinion:
The second tow truck driver blamed the pressure plate. A friend with some experience suggested a problem with the pilot bearing. Finally, I've spoken to another mechanic, who (in consultation with a Mazda tech) said it's most likely the slave cylinder. Since replacement requires dropping the transmission, he also suggested a clutch kit, master cylinder, and flywheel. This last diagnosis seems consistent with known issues mentioned here.

Options:
The last mechanic I spoke to quoted me around $500 for labor, and I have the option to shop around for cheaper parts, which seem to run in the $240 (shipped) range.

My mechanical experience is limited. I've changed brakes, hoses, belts, a water pump, an alternator - but I've only ever assisted with dropping a transmission once, and that was mostly just as an extra set of hands. That said, I'm a grad student with a two-week school break coming up, and I have a few friends who are, if unskilled, at least willing to help.

Questions:
Does the slave cylinder diagnosis seem sound? Is there any way to confirm this without dropping the transmission?

Best I can tell, this transmission was used on Rangers from 1988 to 2000. Would an instructional video like this be helpful, even if it's for a newer Ranger?

I'm decently handy - would I need any special tools to drop the transmission? Is it feasible to accomplish for someone who hasn't done it before, if I have access to proper instructions/diagrams?

Bottom line, I'm trying to see if I can save myself $500 on that labor cost, but I don't want to ruin my transmission either.

Your thoughts are appreciated.
 
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swynx

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Every time I've had a slave go out. You can turn the truck off put it in gear push in the clutch to activate the neutral safety switch. Turn the key and it'll launch forward. Truck will run get the rpms high enough then you let of the gas and pull it out of gear. Rev and pull it into the next gear when the rpms match it'll fall into gear. In 5th gear I could push the pedal to the floor and get the rpm to raise a few hundred.

I'm betting its the slave. Its common in these trucks.

Honestly clutch work is not hard. The hardest part is dropping the tranny. Just becauae three like 50 bolts to turn and often not much room. Once its apart its pretty self explanitory. Like its eeasier that pulling the transmission. its like 10-20 mins to put the clutch flywheel throw out and slave in. Hardest part is getting to it.

I don't remember the exact order the parts go in. I ussually just put them in reverse of how hey came out. But only seem to remember bolting the flywheel on. Torque it down. Then put the clutch on it put the alignment tool in. Then bolt it on. Then replace your slave and throwout. Actually I think I do throw out first. Any who its super easy once your in there

If you've got a decent set of tools, can bleed brakes, and got a decent jack. It can be done in an afternoon

I paid 1000$ to have a shop replace all the parts mentioned with rear main. So that's a good price. I say do it. If you need any help ill post back.
 

Athos

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Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to try and do it myself beginning of next week. I'll post back if I run into any issues.
 

BRUTUS_T_HOG

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If there is no fluid leaking from the bell housing I would hesitate to say the slave cylinder is intermittently failing. A master cylinder sounds more likely as it has ports which must be covered by the seals inside to build pressure.

A bad pressure plate wouldn't be intermittent.

A scorched pilot bearing might drag when hot, but also sounds unlikely.

I think you should start with a new master cylinder and fresh fluid if you don't see any fluid leaking from the bellhousing
 
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Athos

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Thanks for the tip. It would definitely be nice if I could avoid dropping the transmission. May try that first.
 

Athos

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Bit of an update. I backed the truck out to check underneath, and the housing seems clean. When the truck is off, however, and I depress/release the clutch, there's a distinct creaking/squealing sound coming from underneath. It doesn't make the sound when it's running, and at the moment things are functioning properly, though I've only driven it around the neighborhood block.
 
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swynx

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Throwout bearing?
 

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I don't see the TO bearing making it intermittently work/not-work either (bad TO just makes a bunch of noise before it won't disengages the clutch anymore).

My $$$ is also on it being the master cyl.
When it was acting up, did the clutch pedal go limp? (like there's no pressure)?
 

Athos

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The clutch seemed about normal when it wasn't working, I think. Maybe a little mushy. I checked it today, and it's a little mushy now. Not as crisp as it used to be.

Planning to replace the master cylinder tomorrow just to see if that'll do it. We'll see how that goes. If that doesn't work, I'll look at dropping the transmission. Thanks for the suggestions.
 

Athos

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Finished up replacing the master cylinder this afternoon. Bench bled the clutch before putting it in the truck, then bled out the entire system.

The good: Everything seems to be operating fine. I drove the truck around my neighborhood without a hitch.

The bad: I think the pedal still feels a little soft, but that might be my imagination. I'm also not sure, but the clutch might be releasing a little closer to the floor than it used to. This seemed to fix itself as I drove, however.

Finally, there's a squeaking noise coming from the clutch area again (under the truck). The truck did this once before, and then it went away, but I've recorded it in case that helps anyone diagnose the problem.

I need to have any potential issues taken care of by next week. I have the weekend to drop the transmission if need be, so I'm tempted to just do so and throw in a clutch kit/slave cylinder, just as a preventative measure.

Thoughts are definitely appreciated.

Listen to the clutch squeak here: http://soundcloud.com/southernmarch/squeaky-clutch

EDIT: I recorded this with the truck off, in neutral. Each cycle you hear is the pedal being pushed to the floor, then travelling back to the rest position.
 
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Squeaky pressure plate.
I wouldn't be worried about it myself (only because I've heard the same sound in vehicles that went another 50K+ miles before experiencing the typical symptoms of when it's clutch disc finally wore out (slippage under engine load).

The somewhat soft pedal does usually resolve itself. I think you should be good for right now.
 

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To me, the squeak sounds "normal" meaning for most of my years driving a BII it made sound just like that and had no effect. I don't know if my current BII does that however.

For what it is worth, if you do clutch and throw out bearing, while apart it might be smart to do pilot bearing. I don't know how much more that is. A transmission guy I asked opinions on my current problem (only when really cold) says his initial opinion is it is a pilot bearing. The clutch has less than 15K miles on it. His comment was that people replacing a clutch often just grease up the pilot bearing which helps for awhile, but while apart it is better just to replace it. I can't speak for how good advice that is, but it makes sense to me.

It is entirely possible replacing the master cylinder has resolved the issue. I would drive the heck out of it see if the problem shows up. Make sure to work the clutch.

Just an anecdote that may have no relevance. I had a flakey throw out bearing. At first it made grinding sounds, then intermittent sounds like bearings were missing and one day it just went clunk and made no noise except if I held the clutch in for extended periods. I didn't seem to have trouble disengaging the clutch, perhaps a bit low, but I quickly adapted and learned to avoid heavy clutch use. As I approached a stop, as I would let off the gas I would put some pressure on the shift and it would slip out of gear as load came off (sometimes I had to give a little gas if it was already engine braking). I would then only use the clutch a moment to go into gear when I needed. I did the same thing when shifting between gears remove load using gas, pull it to neutral and use clutch just when putting it in. I managed to get 80K miles or so (4 or 5 years) after that "clunk" before I had to do the clutch and at that point it was slipping bad.

The point is that during that time, there were a few occasions when someone else drove that BII. And each time the person would claim to have problems like it stalling when coming to a stop, hard to shift gears, etc. The clutch would just barely be disengaging and if I drove it right after they did I saw the problem. In one case I had to go rescue the person. And sure enough the clutch wasn't disengaging. I nursed it home not using the clutch. In all cases the next day it was fine and I would never have any problems till the next time someone else drove it.

I don't know if that was just throw-out bearing which is what I was told the original issue was or something else on top if it. To me they seemed related since the disengaging problem started after the cluck and noise stopped (well except for the squeal if I held the clutch in too long). And I am not sure why it behaved like it did. My only guesses were that either with using the clutch only just for the short periods I would move just a little further where leaving it depressed in longer let some pressure bleed down. or maybe things just got hotter? scrape away some dirt that held it open the wee bit more it needed to disengage? I don't know. It does have some superficial similarity to what you described where it stopped working and started working again.

With engine running, if you just hold in the clutch does it start to make a squealing noise? Might require someone listening from outside the truck. With mine, I really only could hear it if I was at a drive thru window of some sort where the wall would reflect sounds from under the vehicle to the open drivers window.

Whatever that issue was, it went away when clutch and throw-out bearing were replaced.

As a bit of extra insurance it doesn't hurt to learn how to drive, get thru gears without using a clutch. Takes some finesse and learning what speeds/rpms are needed to enter a gear. The synchro will resist as off but when RPM match it will slip in without any grinding. Just be gentle with it. Not recommended for daily driving but in a pinch can get you home or at least save you a tow. As swanx mentioned you have to start it in gear which is a bit brutal. I can usually get thru all the gears pretty easy, but usually only go as high as 5th cause down shifting is quite trickier and 4th isn't too bad to have to drive in. When stopping I just slip it from gear into neutral after taking engine load off using gas, but then you have to turn it off to start again. I can do a down shift in a pinch for a turn but they tend to be trickier and more likely to mess up and get some grinding.
 

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