This transmission is driving me bonkers

Tedybear · Jun 14, 2016

Okay...This is now considered a "Quest".

1995 Explorer Sport 5 speed manual. M50D-Rsomethingother.

That's the ID tag off this pig.

The wife and I attempted using the actual 'tool' to remove the line from the slave. No Joy. Wanna know why?

It's totally 'chewed' apart. I tried several ways with screw drivers and wedging them in with the tool to shove that monkey where it belongs. It's seized up tight. By the way: The vice grip marks are NOT mine!! I just noticed them in the photo when it uploaded. Pretty bad!

Ron: I'll probably use your suggestion. Currently not much to loose!.

Here's what came out when I nailed this with a vacuum pump and power bleed it out:

It's totally pitch black. I knew it wasn't great considering the last time it was milky and yuck.. We flushed it out....tightened the bleeder and hit the pedal about a dozen times to mix the fluid around.... Finally it came out 'clean' and looking like normal brake DOT-3.

The action we have on the clutch slave. I hope someone can tell me if this is enough movement:

https://youtu.be/U3elJ3mJXKM

The pedal at first seemed a lot higher and like it was going to work. Within a few miles all the old problems came flooding back. We did get a lot of bubbles out of the line when I nailed it with the vacuum pump, but that movement range on the slave looks like it should be enough to fully release the clutch!

At this point I'll look into the master cylinder piston rod removal. (nothing to lose at this point....) If that is clearly enough play for the clutch not to be dragging (I can't imagine when it gets 'hot' that it should be any different. The old yuck fluid is gone now) Maybe it's the input shaft hanging a bit on the pilot bearing. That was suggested, and I'm kinda not looking forward to dropping the transmission.

Suggestions and ideas are welcome. I was going to start the body work on the rocker panels today, but sense it's not really able to move around much, this needs to be done first.

Thanks all!

S-

cocoasranger · Jun 15, 2016

I have had these problems when working on my clutch. First, your travel is more than what I ended up with after finally solving the dragging problem. Second, when the fluid is dark black it often indicates the seals are degrading. Thirdly, the line connecting to the slave has many spring steel fingers in the slave fitting which lock in the line. I suggest trimming the messed up plastic sleeve, then pushing in credit card thickness strips of plastic all around the fitting until it releases. lastly, you can pry off a cir-clip at the front of the slave which allows the rod& plunger assembly to pull out; a couple tiny screw drivers can release the teeth from the rod's groove separating them. Sorry for being wordy. Also, a bad pilot shaft bearing will cause a drag. Hope this helps.

RonD · Jun 15, 2016

If possible stop by a parts store and have them pull out a new slave, so you can see how the hose is held in place.
The larger brass color tube stays with slave, the rest pulls out.

And even after you get the "fingers" inside the tube pushed back you often have to pry on the hose connection it get it out.
It is older and stuck in place

Tedybear · Jun 15, 2016

Considering how chewed up that fitting is. I'll be nipping up a used master for it and hopefully a good line at the yard. More of a proof of concept. If I find the teams will have to be pulled? I'll drop the $ at rock auto for new everything. Have a good day.
S-

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530A using Tapatalk

tbunch · Jun 16, 2016

There is also a more extended bleeding procedure, usually used when replacing the whole master assembly and lines (which it sounds like you will be doing)

http://www.skf.com/binary/81-61713/TT08_002.pdf

I personally don't feel this accomplishes more than what vacuum bleeding does, but if your putting new parts in it might be worth a try.

Luckily the trans on these are not to terrible to drop, even w/ 4x4.

swynx · Jun 16, 2016

mine has gotten pretty chewed up over the years from being plugged by dirt and trying to force it in. ive learned to spray it with pb blaster, try and rotate the collar, thatll free it up.

then if its like yours, ussually some finesse with pliers you can get it straightened out enough to force it in with a screw driver. try using a wide blade screw driver.

Tedybear · Jun 16, 2016

swynx said:
mine has gotten pretty chewed up over the years from being plugged by dirt and trying to force it in. ive learned to spray it with pb blaster, try and rotate the collar, thatll free it up.

then if its like yours, ussually some finesse with pliers you can get it straightened out enough to force it in with a screw driver. try using a wide blade screw driver.

I've got a hook scribe that might be able to snag on to it and clean out the goobersnots.

Just trying to figure out which part is giving me the headache is a headache...

Considering the range of motion seems to be pretty good, even though the fluid looks like port-a-arse... My money's actually going to be on the pilot bearing. It's just a feeling at this point.

But if it is dragging on the pilot-- What can be done to resolve it. I can replace the pilot, but what of the input shaft? I'm starting to wonder if I should get ready to grab another M50D-R1 and have it ready to strip out the input shaft. I'm fairly sure they had 1 or 2 on a 4.0...but RWD only.

I don't know at this point. If the master doesn't solve this, I'll carefully drive it back up to the families place and start doing a tear down to replace the clutch and all it's parts. And hope like Heck the input shaft isn't scored up beyond repair.

S-

RonD · Jun 16, 2016

Failing pilot bearing would be making a noise anytime the input shaft wasn't spinning at the same speed at the flywheel, so anytime clutch pedal was down, like in 1st while stopped.

Like a throw out bearing does when it is on its last legs and you push in the clutch pedal.

I think it is strictly a travel issue, master or slave, maybe fluid since it doesn't actually look like hydraulic(brake) fluid any more, lol.
If the fluid can be compressed then you lose travel.

swynx · Jun 16, 2016

when i bled my clutch i HAD to use the power bleeder kit, but it only worked after i pulled the bleeder screw, wrapped it with ptfe tape. put it back in, put the bleeder hose on. i put about 20 psi of pressure to it then open the bleeder almost nothing at all, you cant even tell its moving fluid unless you look right next to the bleeder, i left it that way for 5 nights, every few hours putting more pressure to it. i never seen bubbles in the line, but thats probably because they were so small.

my pilot bearing just went out, and i only heard it make a humm twice, and i actually thought it was the water pump. then all of a sudden it wouldnt go into gear.

when i dropped the transmission the pilot had thrown out one of the bearings. ive found that if the throw out bearing is going bad you can ussually double clutch and still go through the gears fine.

my transmission also got way easier to shift the more i drove it, and thats with a used clutch. every new clutch ive put in has been retarted hard to shift at a stop.

also that little plastic piece has a split in it, i would probably try and pull it out, and get a replacement, maybe try the pull n save. maybe you can force a new one on enough to get the line out. or try some aluminum from a pop can, im not sure how thick it has to be, i just know that there are teeth like things that lock the line in place. assuming you can just seperate the line from the locking teeth with anything, then that might work.

good luck.

This transmission is driving me bonkers

Tedybear

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RonD

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tbunch

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