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Wont start!......Sometimes!


jkc302

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Hi everyone,

I have searched around the forums a little but didn't really get the info I was looking for so here it goes.

I have a 1996 Ranger 3.0 V6, automatic. Sometimes it won't start right away. It seems like "something" doesn't happen so the fuel pump will pressurize. Sometimes it is just fine, others I have to wait up to an hour for it to work.

When it does finally work you can hear something that sounds like a relay then the pump then it will start. I have checked and moved the three relays around in the box under the hood. The battery is good. Nothing seems obvious. I have looked at all the wiring to the fuel pump at the tank but not in the tank.

When it starts it runs and drives fine, no problems.

I'm lost on this one and getting very frustrated. I'm sure this has been discussed before but any and all help would be greatly appeciated!!

Thank You!
 


RobbieD

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You've covered some good basic things to check already, but here's one suggestion you might want to try. Next time it won't go, see if rapping the relays with your knuckle brings you back to normal starting. The same ones in the underhood box that you wiggled. I've got a '94 2.3L that had a very similar intermintent no start problem which turned out to be a tired fuel pump relay. A good little thump would unstick it. And although I've heard of a couple of other cases of these relays getting lazy and occasionally not working, yours could very well be something else. But your description sure makes me think it might be the relay. Good luck with it, and welcome to the site.
 

jkc302

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Thanks! I'll give it a shot.
 

ranger1999 Bob

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if it doesnt work i had an F250 one time that if you grabbed the wiring harness and shook it right off the positive battery cable near the fusible links it would start somewhere was a loose connection dont know if that will help or not
 

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Both the fuel pump relay and the ECM relay have been known to cause these symptoms.

Usually, but not always, the problem occurs when the engine is warm. You stop, go in a store, come out, no start.

Most people are lucky enough that it will start within a few tries. I've read of a few cases where the engine compartment has to cool down before it will start.

They both use the same relay. The relay is inexpensive enough to "throw parts" at the problem.
 

jkc302

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Once again it gave me a hard time this morning. I tried knocking on the relays and even switched them around (the ones in the box under the hood), no dice.

I will take another look at the connections under the hood but i have done this so many times I really don't think I have missed anything.

Any other ideas???????
 

RobbieD

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I'm sorry to hear that: I was hoping that we'd get lucky. The only thing that comes to mind is to check all of the several wiring harness grounding points, and to see if there's anything in the computer codes.
 

Earl43P

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Got a voltmeter?

Check at the inertia switch (easiest spot) PK/BK wire for power when this occurs. Key on = power, key off = power goes away.

If that is good, you don't have a relay problem, you have an intermittent fuel pump or a bad fuel pump ground (PS fenderwell).

If that check was BAD, you probably have a bad ignition switch. Try turning the key on/off repeatedly.


Intermittent problems are hard to pin down. Check power as described and report back results.

You might also rap hard on the fuel tank when it happens. If that helps = replace fuel pump or at least look at its connection.
 

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Perform a voltage drop test to isolate the problem. If it points to the PCM, perform the same check on the PCM power and ground.

The voltage drop in any simple circuit should all be at the load. If it isn't, find out where it is. Yes you can check in the tank without disassembling it this way.
 

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Try checking the wiring underneath the relay. We had a guy on here some years ago that found one of the spade connectors where the relay plugs into loose from the wire. Wiggling it should make or break contact. I would also check the grounds and wiring at the tank if you are sure this is a fuel problem (which it sounds like to me as well). Wiggling things while it is running might find it too, wiggle until it dies...

You can verify a fuel problem by adding a little gas or starting fluid directly into the engine next time it doesn't start- if it cranks and runs the prime out, you know for sure it isn't getting fuel. If it doesn't start with the prime check the spark next.
 

jkc302

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Wow, A lot of good ideas. I will keep trying. Hopefully is something stupid and easy.

Thanks!!!!!!
 

jkc302

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Here is the update.

Checked the connection at the fuel pump, it was good but i put a new gob of di-electric grease on it and put it back together.

Did the check on the inertia switch and it's good. I used the suggested method.....

Cleaned battery termanals for hell of it.

Checked and wiggled all the wires I could get my hands on.

Checked the fuse/relay box and all the wiring/connections.

I did try giving the tank a swift kick and that didn't immediatelly work but after a couple it did cycle. I'm thinking coincidence.

Where is the fuel pump ground mentioned in an eariler post?? Also, I have in the past replaced the ignition/key. Nothing changed when I did. What if anything else would be the issue in the column?

Anything else? I guess I can try changing the pump but I really don't want to for obvious reasons but if that will do it the trick.......

Jon
 

Earl43P

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I would check for power and ground AT the fuel pump connector WHEN the pump won't run. If power and ground are present, bad fuel pump.

I don't know where the fuel pump ground is on a 96. I only have a 2000 wiring diagram (it's on the passenger side fenderwell, almost all the way back, just forward of the blower).


The thing that keeps bothering me is that you can HEAR the relay click, THEN it'll start and run. That leads me back to the ignition switch or the terminal for the coil of the fuel pump relay, as previously mentioned.

You CAN try to jumper the relay when it doesn't work. Just remove the relay and connect a jumper between the 87 and 30 sockets (marked on the relay, but you are jumpering in the fusebox). If the pump runs, it's back to the ignition switch.

While you are in there, you can probe for power when the key is turned on/off. If it is inconsistent, you are back to ignition switch. Terminal 85 should be the power socket, with 86 being the ground. That ground is provided through the PCM.
 
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RobbieD

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jkc302, all I have for the '96 is Mitchell wiring diagrams (all of my trucks, and factory resources, are pre-'95). The fuel pump ground is shown as "G200", which is listed as "Behind left cowl panel". Unfortunately Mitchell's locator covers components only, and not being familiar with that late of a truck, I can't offer any better description of where this ground is. It looks like other items sharing that ground aren't engine-management critical; locks, windows, seats and lights.

Otherwise, I tend to be thinking along Earl43P's lines; the click you hear bothers me too. It's the PCM that turns the relay on to power the pump; sounds like the PCM at times ain't turning the relay on until it feels like it. Have you checked for codes? Where I'm at some parts stores will check them for free. Good luck, man. As hard as you're going at this problem, you deserve to find this gremlin.
 

jkc302

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I checked the ground at the PS fender well. Seemed OK but I cleaned it up anyway. I waited a few hours and nothing so that didn't seem to be the problem.

I wan't to clear something up. When it works correctly, all I hear is the fuel pump cycle, not really a click or the relay. i thing my wording was misleading - Sorry!

Something else too, I let it sit for about 2 or 3 months. I then decided to see if I could fix it. All of a sudden the pump cycled when I was checking things and it worked perfectlly all summer up until about 2/3 weeks ago. Then it started to act the same way. I did nothing to change anything when it started working. What it will do is slowly get worse meaning that the time from when I turn the key on to when the pump will cycle will get longer. When it was at it's worst it was over two hours and the didn;t work at all.

I have searched the internet and this seems like it's a reletively common problem so I'm guessing that ther is one thing that is the culprit, maybe not since there never seem to be a clear answer.

I will keep trying to figurer it out. It did satrt this morning with very little wait time. :huh:

Thanks for the all the help, updates to follow!
 

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