302 angle ?'s

Iron Ranger · Feb 11, 2009

I just got my 302 and T-5 set in the engine bay and the front-back & side-side is at a perfect 90 degree angle bothways.

Now, is this where all engines are supposed to be at, or are the angles supposed to be different?

I'm mainly asking in relation to driveshafts and re-using the factory tranny crossmember. I don't know if the angle is supposed to be back or forward a few degrees or right on 90.

Thanks

greasemonkey01 · Feb 11, 2009

if you have your trans and motor bolted up. bolt the tranny x-member to the trans and line it up with the old holes & drill new ones or bolt it to the existing holes...

wade · Feb 12, 2009

Mount the tailshaft first, then, locate the engine mounts. The straighter the axis is from the Crankshaft, through the Tranny, through the U-joints, to the Rear Axles Yoke, the better for the sake of wear & tear on the U-joints. But, Engine placement will affect Headers (and exhaust), FEAD, and perhaps Oil Pan. You'll end up compromising here and there, to get a placement that you'll be satisfied with. Don't worry about the angle too much. I'd suggest keeping the angle at the front U-joint below 4°, but its one of those things that generally works itself out. At least, it did for me. You'll really have to be working at it to get the front U-joint angle over 5°! And, remember - the U-joints are there for a reason. They permit the suspension and drivetrain to flex in unison as you drive over that pothole. I wouldn't sweat the angle near as much as the engine placement.

superdave1984 · Feb 13, 2009

You do not want a straight line from the tailshaft to the rear end. You want a slight angle so the needle bearings in the u-joints will spin.

Mac · Feb 13, 2009

Looking down from the top/bottom, it is recommended to have the tail-shaft lined up with the pinion. The angles looking from the side vary so much depending on ride height and wheel base to name a few.
#3 on chart is engine angle, all have 4.75 degs
Front u-joint varies from 1.4 to 5.5 degs
#5 is driveshaft angle and varies from 2.0 to 10.9
#6/7 is pinion angle and varies 5.7 to 9.1 degs

Dave - hope this helps, right out of the 2000 Ranger shop manual

wade · Feb 14, 2009

I figure that most of us aren't rocket-scientists, and probably aren't crawling under our Rangers with protractors.
Mac's Driveline Angle posting shows a 5.5° Front U-joint Angle at the most, all the way down to 1.3° minimum. And, I just kinda' take it that there really isn't a "minimum". SuperDave is recommending some angle to facilitate a needle spin (hopefully, so that the needles will wear in unison).
Each of which makes good sense.
Looking at the Curb Specs, if you do the math (subtract the Pinion Angle from the Rear DS Angle), they (the Rear U-joint Angles) seem to run the gamut from 0.1° (that's a tenth of a degree!) to 4.0°. Most of them less than 2.5°. Which would lead me to think that less is better. Not necessarily 0.0°, but less.
Somehow, or another, I just don't think that many of us doing Ranger V8 conversions are really gonna' measure it to the Nth degree. Get it very close to straight and let it ride.
I mean... ...its a V8 Ranger. The whole point of this is to abuse U-joints! - (and tires!)

superdave1984 · Feb 14, 2009

I got my info from watching Powerblock. Those guys said you need a slight angle either up/down or left/right for the needle bearing spin and longer u-joint life. However upon further research, if you are going racing and don't care how long the joints last, a perfect line will get you the most power to the rear wheels. This can have negative consequences for street driving however. Street driving your suspension moves in all different directions. In drag racing (hopefully) it moves only one direction. You want the straight line under max load for best performance on the strip. Tom Woods from Tom Woods Custom Driveshafts suggests a 3 degree minimum angle. But then he mainly works on lifted 4X4's.

Mac · Feb 14, 2009

That's true SuperDave, the faster the revolutions, the less you want the angle. The rotating mass of the drive shaft has a lot to do with also in race situations, that's why you might see carbon fiber shafts used a lot. There are driveshaft harmonics set up the more of the angle used. I just posted that chart to show that all the different angles can vary so much with-out affecting performance. Like Wade said,"Get it close and get it done". Including some more interesting info on how the drive shaft actually changes rpms.
Dave - 40 years as a mechanical designer
http://www.bgsoflex.com/dshaft.html

Iron Ranger · Feb 14, 2009

Im pretty sure that I'll be doing a 1 piece driveshaft swap on the truck. The 2 piece and the one piece will have different angles at the rear end.

I think I'll just take measurements with an angle finder on the 7.5 and transfer them over to the 9-inch that will be going in place of it.

Sound about right?

Mac · Feb 14, 2009

The data in that chart is from the 2000 shop manual, don't think they still used the 2 piece shaft any more, mine doesn't have it. At least you got the idea and seems like the ability to do it. I can design it and draw it up but lost on welding, even though I have to spec out what is required. Worked in an ASME pressure vessel shop as the only vessel designer for nine years.
Dave - Keep at it, pray for an early Spring!

302 angle ?'s

Iron Ranger

Run lil' ricer RUN!!

greasemonkey01

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wade

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superdave1984

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Mac

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wade

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superdave1984

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Mac

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Iron Ranger

Run lil' ricer RUN!!

Mac

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