2011 Ranger NEW clutch (complete), release/engage in first 1/2 inch of pedal travel UPDATE new question)

[corerftech]

My sons 130k mile 2011 2.3l is now on clutch #3 (as far as I can tell)

Replaced in February, it has nearing 10000 miles on Perfection self adj clutch/Sachs solid flywheel/perfection TO, slave, master.

Truck acquired at 119,000
Clutch was iffy then.
Made it about 3500 miles and it was toast.
Replaced the whole system (I had just done a 1990 with same gear and stunning performance of parts for many many miles).

When finished, clutch activates in first 1.5 inch of travel.
Very difficult to drive for a 6'2" man in a single cab, SB truck.

When we bought the truck for son, clutch behaved same way.

Son drove to Ohio this month and back to TN, upon arriving home stopped at grocery. Came out and had clutch slip and 3000 rpm for 2 miles to get home. Parked, sat for two days, test drove just fine.

I drove it, found the pedal now releasing at 1 inch or less of travel. Have to use a socked foot to drive and tap my toe, literally. I may be way off with an inch and maybe its a half inch.

I have eamiled perfections group but I am not likely to get a reply.

Since this is now the total of an "OE FOMOCO clutch" and then an "autozone" replacement by last owner (first owner actually and maybe they fed it TWO plates!) and then my "perfection" replacement, I am questioning the geometry Ford left the drivetrain with. Did they overcut the bellhousing face? Undercut the bosses that the TO bearing mounts to???

I am afraid with the long Ohio trip, the drivetrain elongated a few thou and closed up the mismachined narrow clutch stack causing the slip he experienced for 2 miles on way home.

I drove today, beat on the truck. 6500 rpm shifts 1-2, 2-3, 4000 rpm clutch dumps in first, no slip. Absolute perfect behavior, except if a gnat lands on the pedal, its out of gear!!


Anybody???? Any insight???

I am about to consider adding .030/.040 as as shim to move the bellhousing away from engine. That will compromise the starter gear by the same but the starter is far less sensitive than the TO bearing. .030 doesnt seem like much but I think it will affect the geometry greatly. Im about to add a big fat air bubble to the darned hydraulics just so the clutch WONT MOVE! (not really).

Help!

Mike

 

[RonD]

I have always used LUK self-adjusting clutch kits, no complaints

Should engage/disengage at the same place, just below 1/2 way on pedal travel, for the life of the disc

From your description I would check the clutch/brake pedal assembly, there are plastic bushings that do wear out, this shifts when pedal engages and disengages
Diagram here: https://www.2carpros.com/images/question_images/351140/original.jpg

The clutch pedal has the long shaft with bushings at both ends that can wear out causing pedal travel inconsistencies


After engine is off and clutch pedal is up, there should be 0 pressure in the clutch system
Open the bleeder on the slave, should be NO squirt of fluid, just a slow gravity drip of fluid
If you get a squirt then the quick disconnect valve or master valve has an issue
This would cause high pedal engage disengage as the slave is always pushing on pressure plate, not 0psi pressure

Could even be the master is not installed correctly, long shot, so pushrod is pushing in on master when pedal is all the way up, which would cause pressure at the slave


Pedal not engaging disengaging until pedal is down to the floor is usually air in the system OR a non self-adjusting pressure plate and a NEW clutch disc, new disc will wear down a bit in the first few weeks of use and pedal will not have to go all the way down to the floor

 

[Vindictus]

I installed the same clutch in my truck 2 years ago. No complaints

More Information for PERFECTION CLUTCH MU21171SKP

 

[corerftech]

RonD,

The plastic bushings, in the past on an F250 PSD/5pd I had bushings fail.
I lathe turned new bronze busings and used a washer and a twisted wire lock (substituting for the automatic locking tabs of the plastic bushings).

This was to cure a lack of activation of the clutch (even with new FOMOCO master/slave). Simply put too; much slop in the linkage system to fully depress the master ram.

I cant see how a bushing, missing, malformed or broken, could lead to faster activation.
Slower, closer to floor, demanding more throw, yes.

Ill take a look at the bushings in any case.

I dont suspect the clutch at all. I suspect something else...... since the original clutch (original with used car purchase) had the same condition. The new clutch relieved problem for a bit and has now surpassed the failed clutch behavior.

Ill do a fluid pressure check at bleeder. That is clear, if it has pressure, the ram is being activated on master.

I guess I need to crawl under and have someone operate the pedal while looking at inspection hole for travel. See exactly how much pedal travel before the TO bearing begins to move.

If I recall install day, I remember being under car and verifying initial travel with son in car. I remember the travel being all in very very early and having a ton of extra pedal after TO was all done with its travel.

Vindictus: Same kit I used for my 1990 2.3
Its the nicest clutch I have even been behind. My 23 year old has had a serious Gen Z issue with manual trans.
I put him in the 2011. He didnt move from driveway.

Put him in 1990, clutch behavior is as RonD described and....... he got behind it and drove it almost intuitively.

Thats how bad the 2011 is for driveabliity with almost zero pedal needed.

I bought the kit twice because it was that good! Something else is wrong and it either started in Michigan in 2010 or in Missouri with original first owner.

 

[corerftech]

I checked the system, no pressure, no install defects - caveat maybe- no other issues.

Discussing with my son the situation of the clutch stack window being shorter than it should be—— he reminded me of this!

There was no dust shield installed. And not having one prior, believing all things were good to go, didn’t make it to a JY to find one in freezing 15 degree conditions.

I had forgotten that.

my 1990 was missing and it took me several months to find one at a JY as most were automatics or were also missing.

Is there a dust cover on the 2011 2.3 manual trans? Orbetter said, should there be??
That would allow .080 inch or so of enlargement of the stack. I measured what the first real 1/2 inch of pedal moves after pedal lever slack removed, TO bearing advances about .060. The first real inch of pedal isn’t much more, as though the slack in TO bearing is being removed. Then at 1.5 inch it’s moves .125 or so. Thereafter it comes on exponentially.

I’d argue that if the dust cover is truly .080 or so, that would give an added 1.5 inch of pedal travel demand to the system. That’s about a 50% throw right we’re it should be.

Anyone with a late model care to let me know about a dust cover?

RonD, does that jive with symptoms??

I didn’t rest until I had a dust cover for my 1990. But there was no time crunch. My sons had none, seemingly had no issues (wrong) and I didn’t have time to source one.

Thanks in advance for the info.

 

[corerftech]

Well I YouTube’d a 2011 clutch change and sure enough, not aluminum but steel and quite thick!!

indeed- I must now procure a separator plate.
Anybody have a fomoco part number to reference? I don’t have time to go to a JY and remove myself. It’s approaching harvest and when grain moves, I work 14’s. It’s about to be go time in Midsouth.

 

[RonD]

There is a Block plate/separator plate between engine block and bell housing on pretty much all engines to keep starter motor lined up

If there was no pressure at the bleeder then throw out bearing could not be pushing in on the pressure plate forks, if thats what you are referring to with "the stack"

The clutch pedal is a lever so if you are measuring end of pedal travel it will be exponential
You should measure pushrod travel at master, which is about 1.5"
I think the slave only moves 1"

Also what you describe could be a self adjusting pressure plate that was never reset, or set if new with a new clutch disc


New with the 3 small springs compressed: https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/4/d/4d8ddc4a7d6edbcd0dce1b3ed510d360947acb3b.jpeg

Used and needs reset, small spring extended: https://www.renaultforums.co.uk/attachments/img_3010-jpg.63538//picture.php?albumid=24048&pictureid=175871

 

[corerftech]

Ron might a new clutch pressure plate have arrived not being set?
It is too long since install for me to remember if the springs were set/collapsed or extended.

I can’t find a FoMoCo plate number for a manual, only an auto. Autos are avail at dealership for $19.95, manuals aren’t even on the exploded drawings for me to reference.

This sucks.

a thought.

Rather than remove trans and PP and reset on a hydraulic press (convenient), since the inspection port is so large—— could I use the slave cylinder (person in car) to extend slave to compress the PP spring blades and then use a simple bent hook to reach in and slide the adjuster spring (only need to reach one), back to collapsed?????

Basically perform the reset in car???

caveats other than access difficulty??

 

[RonD]

Never tried that

Possible new pressure wasn't set but if you can see the springs you can tell if the are compressed

 

[pjtoledo]

my 2005 2.3 manual did not have anything between the block and transmission.
the starter bolts on "sideways" compared to a 3.0 so a plate would not align it.

on resetting the springs while they're in the vehicle, stranger things have happened, but I don't see this happening.

 

[corerftech]

Inspection camera tomorrow after work will tell me status.

Nevertheless the issue would have been that I installed the clutch with springs NOT compressed. That would have extended adjuster to max and has caused the issue.
I had better see them expanded or I have a warranty issue but that would be causing the opposite problem.
Thank you !!!!

 

[pjtoledo]

Well I YouTube’d a 2011 clutch change and sure enough, not aluminum but steel and quite thick!!

indeed- I must now procure a separator plate.
Anybody have a fomoco part number to reference? I don’t have time to go to a JY and remove myself. It’s approaching harvest and when grain moves, I work 14’s. It’s about to be go time in Midsouth.

can you link to that video?

 

[pjtoledo]

Inspection camera tomorrow after work will tell me status.

Nevertheless the issue would have been that I installed the clutch with springs NOT compressed. That would have extended adjuster to max and has caused the issue.
I had better see them expanded or I have a warranty issue but that would be causing the opposite problem.
Thank you !!!!

for what it's worth, when I did the first clutch in my 2005 2.3 I neglected to adjust the springs. that clutch lasted 10 yrs and 180,000 miles.
your method may vary