Conversion to Flex Fuel


Beef52751

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what is this about diffrent spark plugs... when i bought my plugs i didnt tell them it was flex fuel. my tuck runs fine.
 


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AllanD

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On two trips to Wyoming in the past year I've seen E85 and E10 offered for sale.

On one occasion the ggas station I stopped at in Iowa was out of straight gasoline
so I filled ONE tank with E10.

Yeah, it's about $0.10/gal cheaper, but when you lose 1mpg on a
truck that gets 20mpg that's the same as losing $0.30/gal.

If you look at $/gal E10 looks good and E85 looks better,
and it oesn't look all that bad when you look at Miles/gal

however if you calculate it as $/Mile you quickly realize you are
getting royally fukt.

what makes it all worse is that the only reason it can appear to be a good deal
is that government subsidies at several points in the production process
keep the price artificially low.

Basically it's a government subsidized scam.

There is however a purpose to having a flex fuel capable vehicle.
there may be times when nothing else is available.

and potentially atleast you could make your own fuel

Though the government makes producing your own ethanol fuel
as difficult as getting elected president.

AD
 
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sun417

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I normally run e-85 in my 97 ranger 4.0efi the only problem I have had is in cool weather very hard to start. Remember alchol will clean out your fuel tank any junk in line or tank will come loose, so change your filter before you start and after the first tank the sh** that come loose will surprise you. Millage is a little less but I have never seen the 30% you always hear about. As far as crop problems the new improved yeast they have can convert almost anything to alchol saw grass, cat tails, rice hulls you name it. Only problem I see is shell is leading the way is that an oxymoron? There are several gadgets out there to help but from my research higher compression and advane by about 10 degrees will give you a pretty good running engine. A real good place to get the infor on all this is at http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me1.html
The link I found the most interesting was

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id32.html
 

sun417

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With my 4.0 when I run e-85 which is quite often because it now is over a dollar a gallon cheaper. The problems I have found are
1. cold starts are difficult
2. I loose about 2-3 mpg instead of my average of 20mpg I get 17-18
3. Engine code comes on as too lean
4. Not quite a peppy but I drive like an old man to save on gas so that's no problem for me.
5. The first few tanks of e-85 just about plugged up my gas filter so now I watch it close. Lately no problems guess all the gunk is out.

I want to drop to a four banger but build it up a little to make e-85 more efficient. But if it takes alot of changes to drop in like adapters and stuff probably will hold onto 4.0 Does anyone know if any of the 4cyl will bolt right up to the 5 speed 4x4?
 

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Oh dear god, don't be running that much alcohol thru an engine that isn't set up for it.

The flex fuel vehicles have a senser that determines the alcohol/gas ratio and can adjust accordingly, it takes more fuel with ethonal which is why your truck is getting a lean code... the normal 4.0 stuff it can't compensate enough. Flex fuel vehicles also have a different fuel system altother that can handle the more corrosive fuel better.

Personally although it is super common I don't even run E10, it causes fuel line icing in the winter in my Ranger, and dings the milage of my F-150 pretty hard. I did run it without a problem in my Laser though, it called for 90 octane and E10 is 89.
 

jmpetre

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You are hurting your fuel system by running e85 in a vehicle not designed for it. Alchohol is much more corrosive than gasoline is. I have a 3.0 Flex-Fuel Ranger, and from the factory my computer is programmed different, there are sensors to detect the ratio of gas/e85, the gas tank is stainless steel, and all fuel lines are teflon coated.

If you fuel system is not designed for the corrosive alcohol, you are slowly eating away at the fuel lines and gas tank. It will eventually spring a leak.
 

thebatpeople

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It's amazing how much mythology persists around alcohol fuel. ;brownbag;

When I first started researching alcohol fuel I too believed that it would eat away at my fuel lines, spark plugs and that I was going to need a carburated engine with some extensive modifications. Now, I know that FI is the way to go.

Yes, some vehicles you can use E85 without modifications because the ECU will automatically adjust for the conditions without caring whether it's alcohol or gas.

No, pouring staight E85 into an unmodified engine will not hurt it. If you are concerned that it will perform poorly on it, then only do half a tank so you can add more gasoline.

Yes, alcohol nets a lower milage but only because the engine is not properly tuned for it.

Alcohol will not eat away at your fuel line unless you have real rubber hose which is highly unlikely since most manufacturers only make synthetic rubber lines.

Ethanol is not corrosive but methanol is.

Alcohol burns cleaner and the engines runs cooler which extends the life of the engine. If you are concerned about alcohol washing away your engine lubricant then switch to a synthetic oil.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head and I am sure I didn't address all the concerns. Those that are interested in converting to alcohol should read David Blume's book, "Alcohol can be a Gas" and those that say negative things about alcohol fuel should read it twice.

P.S. journeytoforever.org rocks! :icon_hornsup:
 

oldbaldy454

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I doubt whether anyone could duplicate a 1998-2000 3.0 FFV very cheaply.

I don't use E85 in my FFV Ranger even though the previous owner used in every tank
when it was stock and under warranty.

I've tried a couple of tanks of E85 and with city driving in winter months the mileage dropped to 8-12 mpg. I've been able to hit 24 mpg on the highway wth 89 octane a few times with the mods on it now.

Recently saw an ad for 2000 FFV Ranger with 81k miles on it selling for $10,000

Would sell mine for that $ if anyone is seriously interested, as it has the same mileage
and has been "upgraded" with many we deserved aftermarket mods.

Good luck with your conversions.

JB
 

WhiteBroncoII2WD

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It's amazing how much mythology persists around alcohol fuel. ;brownbag;

When I first started researching alcohol fuel I too believed that it would eat away at my fuel lines, spark plugs and that I was going to need a carburated engine with some extensive modifications. Now, I know that FI is the way to go.

Yes, some vehicles you can use E85 without modifications because the ECU will automatically adjust for the conditions without caring whether it's alcohol or gas.

No, pouring staight E85 into an unmodified engine will not hurt it. If you are concerned that it will perform poorly on it, then only do half a tank so you can add more gasoline.

Yes, alcohol nets a lower milage but only because the engine is not properly tuned for it.

Alcohol will not eat away at your fuel line unless you have real rubber hose which is highly unlikely since most manufacturers only make synthetic rubber lines.

Ethanol is not corrosive but methanol is.

Alcohol burns cleaner and the engines runs cooler which extends the life of the engine. If you are concerned about alcohol washing away your engine lubricant then switch to a synthetic oil.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head and I am sure I didn't address all the concerns. Those that are interested in converting to alcohol should read David Blume's book, "Alcohol can be a Gas" and those that say negative things about alcohol fuel should read it twice.

P.S. journeytoforever.org rocks! :icon_hornsup:
As I've said before E85 is not the answer to our Fuel search, but it is available at least more so then butanol right now and for those with Pre-OBDII trucks it could be an alternative to straight gasoline. Considering the short comings of E85, most striking being the reduce in mileage, the price would have to be considerably less than gasoline for it to be competitive.
 

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As I've said before E85 is not the answer to our Fuel search, but it is available at least more so then butanol right now and for those with Pre-OBDII trucks it could be an alternative to straight gasoline. Considering the short comings of E85, most striking being the reduce in mileage, the price would have to be considerably less than gasoline for it to be competitive.
The milage problem can be corrected with proper tuning. Either mechanically with different injectors & spark plugs or electronically with mod chips or aftermarket programmable ECU. The auto manufacturing industry could produce an alcohol only burning engine that could match or exceed the milage of gasoline, if they WANTED to.

Alcohol fuel may not be everyones answer but for me it is. I have been making my own beer & wine for years. Distilling is just an added step. I found a viable conversion for my 92 Ranger & 91 Volvo. I will be putting together a still soon and hopefully be burning E100 and pump free by the end of the year.

butanol ;missingteeth;
or how 'bout beeswax?
 

WhiteBroncoII2WD

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The milage problem can be corrected with proper tuning. Either mechanically with different injectors & spark plugs or electronically with mod chips or aftermarket programmable ECU. The auto manufacturing industry could produce an alcohol only burning engine that could match or exceed the milage of gasoline, if they WANTED to.

Alcohol fuel may not be everyones answer but for me it is. I have been making my own beer & wine for years. Distilling is just an added step. I found a viable conversion for my 92 Ranger & 91 Volvo. I will be putting together a still soon and hopefully be burning E100 and pump free by the end of the year.

butanol ;missingteeth;
or how 'bout beeswax?
What kind of conversion have you found? Have you tried just using ethanol fuel without any modifications?
 

thebatpeople

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What kind of conversion have you found? Have you tried just using ethanol fuel without any modifications?
http://whitelightning.net/index.html

This little ditty is the simplest yet most thorough conversion I have seen. It takes the engine conditions that the ECU gets from the sensors & converts the output to alcohol burning conditions. No need to replace the injectors or spark plugs. It can adjust for any fuel mix from straight gasoline to straight alcohol.

Unfortunatly, no place sells E85 close to where I live or I would have tried it. The research I have done on my ECU tells me I might get away with E85 with poor milage but straight alcohol would be out of the question without some modifications. Since my goal is to go pump free ASAP, I am opting for some type of conversion. I have not researched my Volvo's ECU yet, but I have heard that they are very adaptable. I read somewhere that someone poured E100 into an almost empty tank of a 94 Volvo and went for a test drive. Other than the engine light coming on, he didn't detect any problems. The next time he drove it, the engine light never came on again and he noted that it ran faster & quieter. I will be testing this myself before making any conversions.
 

WhiteBroncoII2WD

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http://whitelightning.net/index.html

This little ditty is the simplest yet most thorough conversion I have seen. It takes the engine conditions that the ECU gets from the sensors & converts the output to alcohol burning conditions. No need to replace the injectors or spark plugs. It can adjust for any fuel mix from straight gasoline to straight alcohol.

Unfortunatly, no place sells E85 close to where I live or I would have tried it. The research I have done on my ECU tells me I might get away with E85 with poor milage but straight alcohol would be out of the question without some modifications. Since my goal is to go pump free ASAP, I am opting for some type of conversion. I have not researched my Volvo's ECU yet, but I have heard that they are very adaptable. I read somewhere that someone poured E100 into an almost empty tank of a 94 Volvo and went for a test drive. Other than the engine light coming on, he didn't detect any problems. The next time he drove it, the engine light never came on again and he noted that it ran faster & quieter. I will be testing this myself before making any conversions.
I can honestly say I've never come across any information on this particular conversion unit. It is reasonably prices compared to others. Have you already purchased it?
 

thebatpeople

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I can honestly say I've never come across any information on this particular conversion unit. It is reasonably prices compared to others. Have you already purchased it?
Not yet but it is in the works, so it will be soon. It is an American adaption/improvement of a Brazilian technology that has been around for many years. It came highly recommended to me by someone that has been pushing for alcohol fuel since the 70's.
 

WhiteBroncoII2WD

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Not yet but it is in the works, so it will be soon. It is an American adaption/improvement of a Brazilian technology that has been around for many years. It came highly recommended to me by someone that has been pushing for alcohol fuel since the 70's.

It still leaves a lot of questions in one's mind, especially since it only communicates with the fuel injectors and no sensors directly. Though, a lot can be determined by the injectors, I still have trouble understanding how the EEC-IV would communicate with it and utilize it. I'll have to give it some more intense thinking.
 


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