Electric Fan

[MAKG]

NO!

Try a REAL bicycle generator.

It takes MORE effort to turn the pedals at a given RPM (and given gear) with more load. As was said earlier, it's not just rotating mass. You're making and moving around strong magnetic fields. These are not free. They take a LOT more energy than simple rotating mass.

For the alternator, it's a regulated system. The field coils are turned up or down to produce the same voltage regardless of RPM. When they are up, it takes more effort to turn. There is nothing magic about this; it's just a feedback circuit where the field coil current is controlled according to whether the voltage is higher or lower than the setting.

Energy is neither created nor destroyed. If you draw energy from the battery, you must replenish it at the same rate or it discharges until it dies. This energy MUST come from the engine; there is no other source. You claimed otherwise. That's perpetual motion.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

One thing is that the electrical fans only have power when the switch is on, whereas the mechanical fans spin all the time at at varying speeds with the engine, although it doesn't exactly take alot of energy without the clutch locked up. I have heard conflicting reviews as to how much power the mechanical takes compared to the electric.

Personally I preffer the mechanical, if it fails the engine will overcool if anything, unlike the electrical fans which won't come on at all and cook the engine.

 

[michowski]

Well heres the numbers on my fan. Anybody got the numbers for the stock fan?

Fan Quantity: Single
Fan Diameter (in): 15.000 in.
Height (in): 16.000 in.
Width (in): 18.000 in.
Thickness (in): 4.250 in.
Maximum Fan CFM: 1,950 cfm
Number of Blades: 8 blades
Maximum Fan RPM: 2,000 rpm
Blade Material: Plastic
Blade Color: Black
Shroud Color: Black
Shroud Material: Glass reinforced nylon
Amp Draw: 9.80 amps

 

[jv982]

Here is my e-fan: http://www.proformparts.com/mistore/productdisplay.php?sku=568724&hdwt=31101&loc=101&dealer=no&company_id=100719

It works very well for me. It moves 2800CFM. It has a built in relay with connections for a manual switch, and for your A/C, and it has an adjustable thermostat.

I have mine wired to to come on when the engine gets too warm and when the a/c is on. It looks just like the flexalite model. It's shroud fits very nicely on the radiator and it covers maybe 80% of the radiator.

The only downside was that it interfered with my stock intake hose that runs from the airbox to the engine. I had to do a little modifications, but it fits good.

This summer in Atlanta we had a solid month of 100+ temp. Anyone that has ever been to Atlanta knows how horrible the traffic is. My cooling system did just fine all summer and never got too hot sitting in all that traffic with the a/c on.

Now I wasn't towing a 5000lb trailer or climbing mt. everest, but I have not been disappointed at all or seen any problems since moving to the e-fan.

 

[michowski]

Yup the flexalite has all the same options. ac hook up, manual switch, the works. I have no ac so mines just got the temp sensor and I also put in a switch because I like switches lol.

 

[calypso93]

FWIW - There is nothing wrong with using the cooling system designed for the vehicle. I towed a 4400# 21' fifth wheel with my 93. East of, west of, and through the Rocky's. The southwest in August. Never had a cooling problem. I figured the electric fans were a "band aid" for some other problem.

 

[Bob Ayers]

I hate to use Chevy as an example, but the base Silverado uses an e-fan, and uses the standard mechanical fan with the towing option....Does this
say the mechanical fan has a larger cooling capacity? Why sure it does!!!!

 

[michowski]

well we can beat this subject to the death but im just gonna stop here. Theres a lot of good points on both sides and I think we have pretty much gone as far as we can. If your crawling up a mountain or towing trailers for a living then stick with the mechanical. If its just your daily driver and your not towing or hauling stuff in it 90% of the time get the electric. Thats basically what I took in from this. 90% of the times the electric fan does the job just fine.

 

[MAKG]

I can't in good conscience recommend to anyone a hack with unknown limits and very serious consequences of failure that might get tripped without the owner realizing it. That's irresponsible.

Can you tell us EXACTLY where that boundary between the "90%" and everything else is? Oh, and don't make up statistics. It makes you look like you haven't the foggiest clue what you're talking about. 90% of what, precisely? Backed up by what survey? You can't even say "most" unless you know something about RBV sales distribution.

 

[michowski]

I said 90% because from everyone I personally know and from what I see its not to often you see a ranger thats a designated hauling or towing vehicle. Seems like most people just use it to be a daily driver.

 

[beyonder]

NO!

Nor the alternator, it's a regulated system. The field coils are turned up or down to produce the same voltage regardless of RPM. When they are up, it takes more effort to turn. There is nothing magic about this; it's just a feedback circuit where the field coil current is controlled according to whether the voltage is higher or lower than the setting.

Ok, lets get rid of the double talk now shall we! Lets consider this for a moment, your saying the field coils are turned up or down to produce the same voltage. Now seriously I suggest you rethink that. You are very incorrect! The voltage is variable due to rotation. The regulator regulates the output voltage keeping it at a constant. Take off the regulator and hook the altinator up to a 10HP or so electric motor, hook up a multimeter and watch the voltage. It will vary somewhere around 70 to 100 Volts AC, this is rectified to around 14ish DC.

Energy is neither created nor destroyed. If you draw energy from the battery, you must replenish it at the same rate or it discharges until it dies. This energy MUST come from the engine; there is no other source. You claimed otherwise. That's perpetual motion

As I said before the voltage regulator regulates voltage to 14ish volts. The power output of the altinator is based on the rpm. For example, if the rpm of the altinator were say 500rpm and if the voltage ( before the regulator and rectifier circut ) were say 50 volts AC, and 1 amp....you have 50 watts of power. This would come out on your multimeter after regulation at 14ish volts DC. And 3.57 Amps { Still 50 WATTS }. Now if the altinator is rotating at 1000rpm the voltage in this case would double due to the RPM. There is no perpetual motion here, 100 volts AC by the same 1 amp = 100 Watts. After regualtion it is still 100 Watts @ 14ish Volts = 7.14 Amps. The power production of this is the same. The point I believe your missing about the benefeit of electric fans is in fact there is no more drag on the engine than normal. Remember basic math here, if the altinator is designed for 60 amps @ 14 volts the max output of that altinator is 840 Watts. If this altinator is designed to run at 2000rpm, then at 2000 RPM Regardless of whether or not the altinator is running anything or not it will still produce the same 840 Watts and still require 1.126 HP of your engine. As for the field coil, that is a wire from your relay to the altinator which is polarized upon the key on position ( At least this has been the case on the rangers I have seen ).

I never suggested perpetual motion. I merely stated the obvious fact that as the altinator achieves higher RPM the excess power being produced is used to charge the vehicles battery.

In reality there isn't much left for power on the altinator. Considering your head lights are a 20amp ( 240 Watts ), tail lights are 10 amp ( 120 Watt ), Radio is a 10 amp ( 120 Watts ), not counting guages, computer,etc. Although those are only fuse ratings and I'm unsure as to the exact numbers on the power consumption there is 480 watts of the altinator being used. Out of 840 watts, I would guess your power consumption would be in line of around 70 or 80% of the altinators capacity. It would be impractical to make an altinator that adjusts its voltage when you require so much of its capacity. The excess if it WERE on 20% excess would act in the means of charging the battery. 168 watts or 12 amps ( @ 14 volts ). And yes this does make sense when you consider your average battery is around 850 cca and 12 volts holding a reserve of 10.2 Kw of power. On a dead battery this would take 60 hrs or so to completely charge.

 

[Bob Ayers]

Remember basic math here, if the altinator is designed for 60 amps @ 14 volts the max output of that altinator is 840 Watts. If this altinator is designed to run at 2000rpm, then at 2000 RPM Regardless of whether or not the altinator is running anything or not it will still produce the same 840 Watts and still require 1.126 HP of your engine..

Sorry, I disagree with you!!!! The alternator's (altinator?) mechanical load on the engine will increase as the current load increases!!

 

[MAKG]

Beyonder, you can't test a charging circuit without the voltage regulator. That's just wildly wrong. Of course you'll get different behavior if you screw up the circuit.

Most (probably all) RBV alternators have integral voltage regulators and rectifiers. This means your comment depends on you breaking your alternator for it to be true.

The regulation circuit is part of ALL charging systems, whether it has an external regulator or not. This is not double-talk. This is you not understanding the basics.

If your charging system produces higher output to the battery -- and the rest of your DC electrical system -- with higher RPM, then it is broken. This is one test one does for a bad (overcharging) alternator. Well, it's actually a bad regulator, but with integral VRs, it really doesn't matter.

NO part of your vehicle's electrical system uses unregulated or unrectified output. And there would be no way to unregulate your alternator anyway.

 

[Todd]

Damn, the fan debate again.

Energy to turn any fan comes from the engine I don’t debate this.

I will only run electric on my wheelin rig. For one reason. Because you can turn it off when in deep water or mud. I don’t like having a propeller under the hood throwing crap all over the place and potentially cutting up the rad.

For this main fact I think electric for rigs is best if you go deep often.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

They may also be good if you go slow alot or idle alot, as they are not directly dependant on engine RPM.

MAKG, I think the 1985 and older trucks do use a external regulator alternator, that is what the parts book called for to go on my '85, but for some reason it had the internal unit off of a '86+ on it. I wish it had it, it was alot cheaper than the one I ended up with.