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Stock 2.8L timing?????


LoneRanger3O2

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So where should my total timing be on a stock 2.8L? I think someone mentioned 23° is max? And usually likes about 10° at idle? Are there any official numbers or idea of where i should be setting it?

What is my TOTAL adv timing and at what RPM? What does that typically leave you with for base timing?

I am taking an EEC-IV motor and converting it to HEI with a 79 Pinto distributor.

If anyone has the answer to this inquiry, the info would be much appreciated. Trying to get my new daily going and im almost ready to fire it up. I dont wanna make a big rookie mistake. I would imagine the HEI would allow more advance than there is supposed to be? But maybe i dont understand how that works, and it is really limited by the distributor instead? Or what?
Thanks.
 
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fastpakr

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The pinto distributor you're using is set up with vacuum advance, right? I don't think the HEI unit has anything to do with the advance side of things.
 

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IIRC I ran mine at 10*. Its been 12 years ago though...

Unhook the vacuum advance and plug it on the engine side when you set the timing though.
 

LoneRanger3O2

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The pinto distributor you're using is set up with vacuum advance, right? I don't think the HEI unit has anything to do with the advance side of things.
Yeah it has a Vacuum Advance. However, the 67-79 Camaro HEI distributors have vacuum advance on the distributor.

As far as how it would affect the 79 Pinto distributor, i dont know. But i made sure i got the HEI module for a 79 just in case the tech is different on any other. So i would get a module that is used on a vacuum adv distributor.

As to how well or if it will work at all, i guess i will find out soon. Haha
 

LoneRanger3O2

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If i could get a phone call with someone that knows what theyre talking about beyond a shadow of a doubt, that would be cool. I think its a sign i am getting older when i start to not understand fully what people are saying on the internet. Lol


So from what i am seeing, my total timing is gonna be somewhere around 35° ADV at around 2300ish RPM and my initial timing at idle is going to be around 20° adv.....is this correct? Because i start with 10° BTDC when i start the engine initially, from cold, with the distributor vacuum plugged.......i make sure its at 10° BTDC, then plug the distributor vacuum back in....make sure its at around 20....right?

Or do i start the engine from cold at 0° (TDC) and then adjust it to around 10° BTDC??? And so on and so forth....????
 

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If you had a TFI ignition system it needed spark advance info from the Computer, the SPOUT wire, because computer has throttle position data.

HEI was used with Vacuum Advance distributors.
The manifold Vacuum is "in effect" throttle position, but not as accurate as a TPS(throttle position sensor)

Duraspark distributors are the popular choice for HEI conversion as they used similar hall effect sensor in the distributor and are vacuum advance.

Either setup/distributor would have centrifugal advance(weights and springs) in the distributor for RPM Spark advance.

Base spark timing is set without computer or vacuum advance connected
10-12deg is suggested base spark time for these engines.
Its best to set timing after engine is warmed up
So get it started and let it idle for 10minutes.
Then disconnect vacuum advance, PLUG THE HOSE, and set base timing

Warm Idle for manual trans should be 650, 750 for automatic
When vacuum advance is reconnected idle will most likely go up a bit, it depends on the vacuum advance YOU CHOOSE to use, reset idle for transmission type

All gasoline engines need to be Choke when cold, so make sure your choke setup is working or cold engine won't run well

Ford often used a Dual vacuum advance setup
A vacuum valve that heated up with the engine and switched between Ported Vacuum and Manifold vacuum, this was mostly for lower emissions.

And Ported Vacuum or Manifold vacuum for spark advance is a long drawn out debate, lol :)

And there is usually a screw inside the hose fitting on the vacuum advance unit that can be adjusted for best performance

Spark timing 101
Lean mix, like at idle, takes longer to fully ignite
Rich mix, like when accelerating, take less time to fully ignite

Fully ignite means full explosive power, when a spark plug sparks it ignites just a bit of the air fuel mix around it, it takes some time for the flame front to spread and you get the full explosive power to push down the piston and add power to crank shaft.
And you want this to occur After TDC of course, lol, but you want it at about 8deg ATDC

Before that and you don't get good leverage on the crank to push it down, and after than you don't get full power from the explosion because there is too much room for it to expand into, so less power is added to crank

At idle with vacuum advance 20-25deg advance is fine its a leaner mix and low RPMs so takes a few extra millisecond for piston to move to 8deg ATDC and for mix to fully ignite.
As RPMs go up the time it takes for piston to move from say 20deg BTDC to 10deg ATDC is much faster.
Centrifugal advance takes care of the RPM advance for the spark, so spark moves to more advanced as RPMs go up
BUT......if you step on the gas, make Richer mix, the Vacuum advance should retard the centrifugal advance a bit because the Richer mix ignites faster than the leaner mix, but as the RPMs get higher from "stepping on the gas" it should start to get more advanced.

Set based timing at 10deg BTDC, warm engine 700rpm
Add vacuum advance
Reset idle as needed
You are done
Go for a drive
If you have a hesitation or other issues you think might be spark related the try 12deg BTDC

Spark timing is not universal, i.e. a 2.8l engine at the factory is a way different engine 30 years later, there are a number of factors, including spark plug gap, that will effect the spark timing that is best for YOUR 2.8l
 
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LoneRanger3O2

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If you had a TFI ignition system it needed spark advance info from the Computer, the SPOUT wire, because computer has throttle position data.

HEI was used with Vacuum Advance distributors.
The manifold Vacuum is "in effect" throttle position, but not as accurate as a TPS(throttle position sensor)

Duraspark distributors are the popular choice for HEI conversion as they used similar hall effect sensor in the distributor and are vacuum advance.

Either setup/distributor would have centrifugal advance(weights and springs) in the distributor for RPM Spark advance.

Base spark timing is set without computer or vacuum advance connected
10-12deg is suggested base spark time for these engines.
Its best to set timing after engine is warmed up
So get it started and let it idle for 10minutes.
Then disconnect vacuum advance, PLUG THE HOSE, and set base timing

Warm Idle for manual trans should be 650, 750 for automatic
When vacuum advance is reconnected idle will most likely go up a bit, it depends on the vacuum advance YOU CHOOSE to use, reset idle for transmission type

All gasoline engines need to be Choke when cold, so make sure your choke setup is working or cold engine won't run well

Ford often used a Dual vacuum advance setup
A vacuum valve that heated up with the engine and switched between Ported Vacuum and Manifold vacuum, this was mostly for lower emissions.

And Ported Vacuum or Manifold vacuum for spark advance is a long drawn out debate, lol :)

And there is usually a screw inside the hose fitting on the vacuum advance unit that can be adjusted for best performance

Spark timing 101
Lean mix, like at idle, takes longer to fully ignite
Rich mix, like when accelerating, take less time to fully ignite

Fully ignite means full explosive power, when a spark plug sparks it ignites just a bit of the air fuel mix around it, it takes some time for the flame front to spread and you get the full explosive power to push down the piston and add power to crank shaft.
And you want this to occur After TDC of course, lol, but you want it at about 8deg ATDC

Before that and you don't get good leverage on the crank to push it down, and after than you don't get full power from the explosion because there is too much room for it to expand into, so less power is added to crank

At idle with vacuum advance 20-25deg advance is fine its a leaner mix and low RPMs so takes a few extra millisecond for piston to move to 8deg ATDC and for mix to fully ignite.
As RPMs go up the time it takes for piston to move from say 20deg BTDC to 10deg ATDC is much faster.
Centrifugal advance takes care of the RPM advance for the spark, so spark moves to more advanced as RPMs go up
BUT......if you step on the gas, make Richer mix, the Vacuum advance should retard the centrifugal advance a bit because the Richer mix ignites faster than the leaner mix, but as the RPMs get higher from "stepping on the gas" it should start to get more advanced.

Set based timing at 10deg BTDC, warm engine 700rpm
Add vacuum advance
Reset idle as needed
You are done
Go for a drive
If you have a hesitation or other issues you think might be spark related the try 12deg BTDC

Spark timing is not universal, i.e. a 2.8l engine at the factory is a way different engine 30 years later, there are a number of factors, including spark plug gap, that will effect th6e spark timing that is best for YOUR 2.8l
Thanks for the info man! Hoping to fire this thing up on Monday! Ill be posting a write up on converting to HEI. Should be a good one
 

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