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Old 09-20-2018, 09:13 PM   #1
Crash_X
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Default 1990 2.9 pinging

Hi all,
Ok this is going to take a bit of explaining.
1990 2.9 Ranger 133k miles. very clean.
Previous owner put new injectors in. But siliconed the intake gasket.
I get truck, runs weak but not to bad.
changed fan clutch (frozen), Exhaust gaskets (both sides leaking). This also when I found the dist was crazy loose. cant believe it ran, much less as well as it did.
Go to smog, HC real high, smog guy says look for vac leak.
2 1/2 cans later, I cant find a leak that would make the engine alter.
Go back and with the sniffer in we found the lower intake was leaking.
Change intake (upper and lower), found silicone and one loose forward bolt.
Thinking I found the problem.
Well NOW, I have a pinging /rattling. Sounds like a coffee can of rocks.
Consistently happens at 2400-3000 rpm
At first it sounded so bad it sounded mechanical.
Listened all over the engine and narrowed it to number 5 and 6 cylinders in the valve cover or at the intake valves. Found nothing!!!
Why I think its ping is cause if the spout conn is pulled the noise almost goes away.
Base timing is 10* with spout out.
I have put new cap and rotor, plugs, TFI.
Spout circuit is good, and no codes.
I even retarded the base timing to see if that helped. It didnt.
could it be the PIP unit?
computer is controlling timing when the spout is in.
with a base of 10* timing goes to 25* and is steady in till a throttle blip.
Timing does not change when ping starts happening.
Im dying here guys. Im out of time, money and patience.
Please help me save my little Ford
Thanks
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:53 AM   #2
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Welcome to TRS

Try 12deg BTDC as base timing

You said you tried "retarding" the spark timing, which means 8deg BTDC which would make octane based pre-detonation worse.
Advancing the spark timing, sparking earlier in the compression stroke, would be 12deg BTDC, so spark occurs earlier before Regular Gasoline can pre-detonate.

That's assuming this is octane based pinging/knocking.
You can run some Premium fuel to see if thats the cause

There is also Lean air:fuel mix pinging, since you get the pinging above 2,500 RPM you could have a fuel pressure issue, fuel pressure is dropping under load.
This could just be a dirty fuel filter, it can't pass enough fuel for higher demand so pressure drops at the engine and fuel mix goes Lean.
I would expect a CEL(check engine light) over time if this was happening.


Then there is heat pinging, it is octane based but caused because a cylinder, or a few, are running hotter than normal, it only takes a few degrees hotter to cause regular gas to pre-detonate.
If you "lug" any gasoline engine it will ping, this is heat based, wrong gear ratio, engine doesn't have the torque so starts to heat up in the cylinders.
Try downshifting, manual or automatic

Octane based pinging generally won't happen until engine is fully warmed up, so test if you get pinging when engine is still cold and you are driving at 2,500-3,000rpm.

Also when engine is pinging, press down on the gas pedal all the way, WOT(wide open throttle)
On the upper intake on the throttle plate is the TPS(throttle position sensor), this tells the computer drivers position on gas pedal.
When computer "sees" WOT it ignores O2 sensors and runs RICH fuel mix for maximum power.

Simple test to see if you have WOT, throttle cables stretch and are easily fixed
Turn on Key
Press gas pedal down to the floor and hold it down
Try to start engine

It should NOT start, it should not fire, it should just crank
Release gas pedal and it will start

This is called "Clear Flooded Engine" and all fuel injection computer have it
Key on = computer on
gas pedal to the floor = 4.5volt on TPS(WOT)
If computer sees WOT and RPMS are at 0 then it will turn off fuel injectors
Clear Flooded engine allows you to dry out a Flooded Engine

So when you crank the engine with Clear Flooded Engine ON, no fuel will be coming in so no start

If engine does start then Google: Ranger throttle cable mod
Stretched throttle cable is not opening throttle plate all the way, so only 4v from TPS and no Clear Flooded Engine

This will also give you more power, since you were not getting full throttle before

Last edited by RonD; 09-21-2018 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:58 PM   #3
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Thank you RonD
so it looks like I wasnt clear on what rpm this happens and that it goes away after 3000 rpm. or that I cant hear it at that point.
I can make it happen no load in the driveway and really seems the same on the road with a load.

So I did check that it does not happen when cold,
and "clear flood" is working.
when driving warmed, it kind of clears up when I do go WOT.
But at that point im passing the RPM range that it makes noise. But it does sound like it would be lean cause WOT seems to clean it up some.

I know the 2.9 has a "rumble" when lugged down.
But I can do this parked in the driveway with no load.
Very manipulatable, always at 2400, stops around 3000-3200.
Not there with spout out or when cold.

I will try advanced and see what that does for it.

I know filter should be changed, just havet got to that yet. and it clears up at upper RPMs but is weak and stops pulling around 4500-5000.

I forgot to say I did a Sea foam on intake (wasnt very dirty inside when I did the intake gasket) and oil treatment ( had a lifter start sticking, but that seems better now).

The CEL does work, but has never come on during this (except when I unplugged the MAF to check if ecm was doing its thing)
Thanks
Im going to go adv timing and see what that does.
Check back later
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:35 PM   #4
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Ok, update:
adv base time to 12 then 15.
both lowered the RPM that it started rattling.
And was worse, harder rattle.
12 about 21-2200
15 about 17-1800
warming up at 24-2500 (with spout in), no rattle in till temp started coming up.
started very mild then progressed as temp came up.
What next? LOL
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:13 PM   #5
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What about 8deg BTDC?

Does it have the same spark plugs in all cylinders?

Have you or could you check the tips on all 6 to see if one or two show a difference from the others?

Do the spark plug wires match?
Like they are a from a matched set
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:01 PM   #6
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Hi RonD,
8* didnt really change much that I could tell.
Plugs are new motorcraft I put in.
Wires are a good looking matched set. I will change them out when i get some money for it.
Last time I seen the plugs, they looked great. no diff. that I could tell.
Also, today it sounds like it moved to the other side of the engine.

Last edited by Crash_X; 09-21-2018 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:26 PM   #7
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Just a thought, have you pulled the distributor and checked the integrity of the bottom of it?
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:44 PM   #8
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Yes Ive had the dist out a few times.
All felt and looked good as I could tell.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:39 PM   #9
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Could it be valve train noise and not pinging?

And could you run Premium gasoline just to make sure it is ping/knock issue not valve train noise.

Since RPM range changed with spark advance I am sure it is pinging but.................I've been sure about a lot of stuff that was just plain WRONG
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:11 AM   #10
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maybe hydraulic lifters not building up. oil circulation. Whats the oil pressure.
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