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Help Installing Engine


backporch

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Tonight I tried to install my replacement motor with its new clutch. I was pretty successful getting the motor to where it needed to be, but I found that I got to a point where I could not get the engine and transmission to mate completely. I had extra long bolts for the two bottom bolts that allowed me to line things up.

I tried rocking and raising /lowering the engine... no luck I probably could have started to tighten the bolts on the sides where the case trans has alignment sleeves, but I didn't want to force anything. The smallest gap between the engine and transmission was about a finger width... maybe 3/4 inch.

I convinced myself that the trans shaft must have mated with the clutch splines but maybe not the pilot bearing. I decided to pull the motor and check the clutch alignment. It looked to be damn near perfect with my plastic alignment tool.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
 


Bird76Mojo

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Keep wiggling like crazy. It'll eventually just fall into place when you least expect it.




GB :)
 

adsm08

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This is why I like to drop the trans out, set the engine in, and then line them up that way. It's easier, more work to be sure, but easier to get done.

You might also try cracking the bleeder screw on your slave. That distance sounds like the spot a throw out bearing hits the pressure plate, and then you have to compress those springs too, unless you crack the bleeder and let the slave compress.
 

avid

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I just put a rebuilt engine in my truck about a month ago, but it has an automatic transmission so not sure this is totally applicable. We ended up removing the engine mounts entirely so that we had more room to maneuver the engine. Once mated, it was simple enough to put the mounts back on while the engine was still on the hoist. Good luck.
 

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I just put a rebuilt engine in my truck about a month ago, but it has an automatic transmission so not sure this is totally applicable. We ended up removing the engine mounts entirely so that we had more room to maneuver the engine. Once mated, it was simple enough to put the mounts back on while the engine was still on the hoist. Good luck.
The problem the OP is having can't really exist on an automatic.
 

backporch

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Removed Engine Mounts

It didn't occur to me at first that I had to remove the engine mount brackets until I had dropped the engine into the bay. There is no way to move the engine low enough and slide it back without hitting the mounts. I pulled those brackets and kept going.

I have to wrap my head around the clutch slave cylinder. If the pressure plate fingers contact the clutch release bearing, there is that first length of travel
where only the spring behind the release bearing is resisting. That is relatively easy to push back by hand and I don't think that is getting in my way. Once that has retracted, I guess I would be working against the slave cylinder, which I could understand provides a lot of resistance. I would expect that if you didn't push on the clutch pedal while the engine was out that the hydraulic part would be just clear of the pressure plate fingers... but I really don't know.

Going to measure everything tonight based on the offset from the plane of the engine trans mating surface.

If I do find the clutch slave cylinder needs to be retracted, can that be done similar to how you retract calipers, pushing fluid back into the master cylinder?
 

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Going to measure everything tonight based on the offset from the plane of the engine trans mating surface.

If I do find the clutch slave cylinder needs to be retracted, can that be done similar to how you retract calipers, pushing fluid back into the master cylinder?
Between my various vehicles and configurations I have removed and reinstalled the engine or trans about 20 times. I ALWAYS get stuck right were you did, always crack the bleeder open a hair, and it always works.
 

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I always preferred to unbolt the trany mount then use my knees and arms to angle the trany to line them up. But this is just my personal preferred way. You and also use a jack to help angle the trany to better match the motor's angle. I have a feeling your input shaft is having issues going into the pilot bearing, only since I personally have never had an issue with the slave cylinder keeping the trany input shaft from entering the pilot bearing. as mentioned a lot of wiggling will go far in this part of the process.

If you have a friend that has one or can get your hands on one they make a plate with an adjustment to angle the motor to help line up the trany. These hook right onto your engine crane and super simple to use.

Just my two cents on the subject.
 

backporch

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Thanks for the responses. I will definitely be watching the slave cylinder and will have a little more patience working it into place.

The extra long M10x1.5 bolts that I picked up to mount the engine to a stand turned out, by total luck, to really help line things up. I started them in the two lower bolt locations and they allowed me to grab the engine while it was still about 1-2" away from the transmission and at least minimize the play left to right and even rotationally between the two. There was still some slop, but I think it helped.
 

backporch

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Measurements

I took some rough measurements.

The alignment tool fit snug in the old clutch disk and the end of the shaft was around 15mm diameter. I measured the transmission input shaft and it was 15mm diameter.

I put a straight edge across the transmission housing and found the drive shaft was touching the straight edge, so probably a few mm beyond the transmission edge. The splined part of the shaft started 30mm in from the end and continued for 10mm. The clutch release bearing was 60mm in from the start of the shaft and compressing the spring extended another 30mm. With minimal pressure the clutch release bearing was about 90mm from the plane where the transmission ends.

On the engine side, the pressure plate extended 90 mm beyond the end of the block. Measuring back from this line, the PP fingers were only slightly in from that edge.. Measuring toward the front of the motor from the rear edge of the pressure plate, the splined part of the clutch disk started 25mm forward and the pilot bearing was 70mm forward from the edge.

Given those measurements and ignoring the input shaft, the pressure plate fingers would extend 90mm into the transmission bell housing when completely mated. That would push the clutch release bearing 30 mm back and compress the spring completely under relatively light pressure.

Considering the input shaft... when the engine and transmission are 45mm apart, the splines would come into contact and have to align. When the two are 20mm apart the input shaft would have to align with the pilot bearing.
 
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adsm08

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This is what I got from that:



I'm not a numbers guy.
 

Craig0320

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backporch

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Summary

I am trying to make up for a lack of experience with a measuring tape and straight edge.

Summary is that given the position of my slave cylinder, there won't be any issue with the pressure plate. If I get stuck mating the engine and transmission and the gap between them is around 40mm, then the splined part of the input shaft hasn't mated with the clutch disk. If the gap is even and about 20mm, then the pilot bearing is not lined up.

At a 40 mm gap, I am rocking rotating and pushing and at 20 mm just rocking and pushing.
 
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backporch

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Its in

got it in this weekend. Got stuck at about the same place and took way too long to make that final gap go away. tried a number of things and I don't know if it was the cure, but I put a little pressure on with two mounting bolts and rotated the engine 360 degrees. I was thinking if the shaft needed perfect alignment, it might work its way in somewhere along that rotation.
 

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