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Do I have symptoms of bad tie rod ends? Is there a better way to check them?


cstarbard

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Hey guys,

I have a 1996 2.3 Ranger (TTB). I have set the toe myself twice, and the toe held each time for weeks or even a month or more, but then got out of spec again both times. I set the toe to 1/16" toe in each time, and now just looking at the front of the truck I clearly have toe out. Each time the toe is out again I of course get steering wander, pull, etc that I do not have after I set the toe in.

I can see that my tie rod adjustment sleeves have not moved on their own, which I understand is an obvious thing that would affect toe. I marked them after I finished doing the toe last time for this reason. And of course I torqued the bolts on the sleeves to the spec in my service manual.

This is making me wonder if I have bad tie rod ends, combined with the fact that the tie rod ends are pretty easy to turn clockwise/counterclockwise over the stud. They feel loose, but there isn't any clicking, clunking, squeaking etc, and I don't see any visible in-and-out play. They just feel much looser than I would expect while turning them by hand.

I'm wondering if this means to you guys that my tie rod ends are on the way out, and also if you guys know of a more definitive test. I wouldn't be surprised if the are going bad (probably original), but I also would have thought I'd be able to see a lot more play.

Thanks in advance
 


Denisefwd93

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I think I'd look real close and check the ball joints, I was told they were good in my truck and we had to replace them all. The truck I have now they seem to have been replaced and they seem tight.
 

cstarbard

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Thanks Denise. I've checked those in the garage with a helper the following way:

1. Jack the truck up so front wheels are off ground
2. Helper uses a huge solid steel bar (4-5 ft. long) under the tire, pulling up on lever while I watch ball joints/knuckle for movement

I haven't noticed any play or heard anything at all from the ball joints doing this. Is there a better way to test?

Update: I just went outside to play with the steering and if I hold an adjusting sleeve and rotate it clockwise, then counter clockwise, back and forth essentially, I can hear clunking sometimes. Hard to tell if its coming from inner tie rods or outer tie rods, seems to only happen when I've rotated the adjustment sleeve in its max direction clockwise or counter clockwise. Happens on both sides. Is this normal?

Also, I have been meaning to adjust the camber caster bushings in the knuckle because the way they are set right now doesn't make a lot of sense. I have 2 degrees positive camber on one side (driver's I believe) and 2 degrees negative on other side. Supposing I set both driver and passenger camber caster bushings to have 0 degrees camber, if after adjustment is complete I develop positive or negative camber again, would that indicate a failing ball joint?

Truck has 160k on it and I honestly think all of the front end parts are original so I wouldn't be surprised by anything failing up there but I'd love to learn better ways to test all of these parts if there are better ways before I replace stuff.
 
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Bgunner

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DO you have the jam nuts to lock the tie rod ends in place on there? silly question but I have seen stranger things be missing.

To test the tie rod ends and steering linkages, lift one side at a time, have helper grab the lifted tire at 3 and 9 o'clock and turn side to side and look at all joints and pitman arm for any play. If the joint has play then it is bad but if it just moves slightly only in the direction of normal travel then the joint is good. If a tie rod end is bad the tie rod end upper part will stay still but the steering knuckle will move independently of each other.

IF your alignment is not staying and all lock/jam nuts are tight then the most likely cause is a worn suspension or steering part.
 

cstarbard

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Thanks Bgunner. I see you are from Western Mass also :icon_thumby:

Yes haha luckily all the jam nuts are in place. I always look for things like that when I first get a vehicle home. I found a lot of funny things missing/wrong with the truck when I bought it almost a year ago, luckily that was not one of them!

Those sound like solid tests. I will try those today and see what I find.
 

Bgunner

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Yea we Massholes need to stick together. :icon_hornsup:


While the truck is up also check the radius arm bushings, located just about under the doors, because when these go your alignment will not stay but pertains mostly to camber not staying. On these you look for front to back movement in the arm usually noticeable at the bushings that the arm is moving. These are simple to replace I recommend a good air/cordless impact gun to get the nut off, if replacement is needed. I'm doing mine soon, just waiting on my bushings to come in.


EDIT: I believe I was wrong on what the radius arm affects I believe it affects caster and not camber. It will allow the axle to move forward and back changing the caster. ( caster is the position of the wheel from the center line going up and down. Caster and be positive or negative, positive being before center line and negative being after the center line.)

""QUOTE" Update: I just went outside to play with the steering and if I hold an adjusting sleeve and rotate it clockwise, then counter clockwise, back and forth essentially, I can hear clunking sometimes. Hard to tell if its coming from inner tie rods or outer tie rods, seems to only happen when I've rotated the adjustment sleeve in its max direction clockwise or counter clockwise. Happens on both sides. Is this normal?

Also, I have been meaning to adjust the camber caster bushings in the knuckle because the way they are set right now doesn't make a lot of sense. I have 2 degrees positive camber on one side (driver's I believe) and 2 degrees negative on other side. Supposing I set both driver and passenger camber caster bushings to have 0 degrees camber, if after adjustment is complete I develop positive or negative camber again, would that indicate a failing ball joint?""


The clunking you are hearing is normal when turning the collar. It is the upper part of the tire rod making contact with the steering knuckle.

Bad ball joints can mess with camber, caster and toe readings. Before you can say that the ball joints are bad, if you can not see them move, then you need to be sure all ( and I mean all) joints are tight and good. This includes the joints for the TTB suspension. any play there will also affect your camber, caster and toe. But start searching at ball style joints, like you are, first for the common causes.
 
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cstarbard

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Agreed :icon_thumby: If only there was a Mass Ranger meet

Thanks for the tip on the radius arm bushings. I put new thermoplastic ones in a while ago. When I got the truck, one was so bad that the stud of the radius arm was chewing into the bracket... yikes

So you are saying that the axle pivot bushings could also be an issue? That makes sense. I intend upon replacing them with poly ones as soon as I can afford to buy the whole bushing kit for my truck (many other bad bushings as well lol) to rule that out as well.

When I have a helper I'll see if I can see any visible slop at the axle pivot bushings, maybe I'll just have to do them sooner rather than later.

Thanks for all the help!
 

cstarbard

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I checked all the steering pieces and the ball joints yesterday before attempting to align my truck. They all look good. No play anywhere.

Upon much closer inspection, it looks like one of my tie rod adjusting sleeves had moved from where I last set it, which I could see since I had marked them. It didn't move a lot, and took a while, but I'll have to keep a close eye on it and make sure that doesn't happen again.
 

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Best way to find play in the tie rod ends is to have someone rock the steering wheel back & forth (truck on the ground) while you look for any movement or looseness where there shouldn't be (engine doesn't need to be running). I've found that even with the wheels jacked up, such looseness doesn't always present itself reliably if you're just pushing & pulling on things by hand.
 

cstarbard

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Best way to find play in the tie rod ends is to have someone rock the steering wheel back & forth (truck on the ground) while you look for any movement or looseness where there shouldn't be (engine doesn't need to be running). I've found that even with the wheels jacked up, such looseness doesn't always present itself reliably if you're just pushing & pulling on things by hand.
Awesome, tip, thank you! :icon_thumby:
 

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