Back brakes still not working very well at all

bryanb · Dec 10, 2012

Its winter again! Time to see if there are any more opinions on my rear bakes issues, that I've posted about before.

Basically, they don't want to activate hydraulically. The E-Brake seems to work fine. I've bled them numerous times, put new pads in, new wheel cylinders, new rubber line at the rear axle, and bypassed the ABS valve. - Not much better.

As it stands NOW:
Brakes still not grabbing near enough. OR!, the fronts are grabbing way too soon. On the snow, the fronts will lock easily, but the rears won't stop the back wheels from spinning unless I stand on the pedal, which is useless, since the fronts will lock with just a light tap on the pedal.

Took it to a shop recently. Told them flush the lines, and pay special attention to the rears, and explained the problem. The flushed the lines, roughed up the glaze on the drums, and pads, and then decided to try blowing out all the lines, looking for an obstruction. Nothing was found, and the system was bled again.

Still no difference.

The shop mentioned replacing the master cylinder, and that is CHEAP from the likes of Rock Auto, etc, and the shop is reasonable. They did say thats the only thing left to try, but wasn't sure that would solve anything.

So mainly, my question is, would it?

Are the rear brakes basically useless? Or am I missing something?

Thanks for your help, in advance.

wizkid00104 · Dec 10, 2012

Just as a thought, have you tried switching the lines to the master cylinder? Switch the ports going to the front and the rear and try again.

Have you replaced the drums? You might not be getting the tight clearance between the shoes and the drums for the hydraulics to work where as the e-brake will.

In my opinion, rear brakes don't do much and mine have been quite a headache.

bryanb · Dec 10, 2012

Yes, did replace the drums once. Not entirely sure that they are self adjusting. The cables were both broken when i got the truck, and I fixed that when I put on new drums, and wheel cylinders. I've had the truck for almost 3 years, and I've been stumped by this rear brake problem off and on since...

wizkid00104 · Dec 10, 2012

Do the adjustor screws rotate or are the seized?

Sent from my iPhone

bryanb · Dec 10, 2012

wizkid00104 said:
Do the adjustor screws rotate or are the seized?

Sent from my iPhone

Adjuster screws are new, and work fine, or one would assume.

wizkid00104 · Dec 10, 2012

You've stumped me then. Maybe look into swapping the 10" drums from a 4.0L Ranger or a rear axle swap with explorer discs.

Sent from my iPhone

snoranger · Dec 10, 2012

bryanb said:
Adjuster screws are new, and work fine, or one would assume.

Were they put on the right sides? If they arent, they will un-adjust instead of adjusting.

Mark_88 · Dec 11, 2012

snoranger said:
Were they put on the right sides? If they arent, they will un-adjust instead of adjusting.

^^ This might be the problem...there are pictures of the proper assembly on-line...I posted one a while back...not sure if it was for you or someone else...

As you can see...the long end points towards the FRONT of the vehicle...worth checking...

Did you try adjusting them by backing up and mashing the pedal (may require a few times)?

Had a similar problem on my truck at one point...had to adjust them quite a bit for some reason but then they've worked properly ever since...

The rear brakes should do about 30% of the braking...otherwise you just wear out the fronts faster and also get very reduced braking power...

bryanb · Dec 27, 2012

I may or not have mentioned, when the shop flushed the system, he mentioned that I had two different brands of shoes on the back. The driver side has sprung a leak in the wheel cylinder and, and fluid got on the shoes. So I replaced that side, as well as both wheel cylinders. I hadnt noticed a difference in the shoes, so left the passenger side alone. THe guy at the shop said he liked the ones I had on the drivers side, so to replace the one on the passenger side.

I did that this past weekend, and I remember the adjuster being on the correct way, the wheel towards the back, and the long end toward the front. (found a neat way to get that adjuster spring on, tie a zip tie around the adjusting arm, and then adjusting screw, and then you can use two hands to get that spring on with a needle nose pliers(be sure to take zip tie off!))

Yesterday, i took it in to shop for a new master cylinder. Brakes feel different. I think, but can't be sure, the pedal goes further with nothing happening, but not to floor. But when it does start to grab, it seems to be grabbing the backs as well. I haven't had the same sensation as before, at least, where the fronts lock real early, and the backs never grab on ice. So this is better, I think.

Mark_88 said:
^^ This might be the problem...there are pictures of the proper assembly on-line...I posted one a while back...not sure if it was for you or someone else...

As you can see...the long end points towards the FRONT of the vehicle...worth checking...

Did you try adjusting them by backing up and mashing the pedal (may require a few times)?

Had a similar problem on my truck at one point...had to adjust them quite a bit for some reason but then they've worked properly ever since...

The rear brakes should do about 30% of the braking...otherwise you just wear out the fronts faster and also get very reduced braking power...

alwaysFlOoReD · Dec 27, 2012

If some one had previously replaced the master with a non-stock application, it could change the proportioning of front/back braking. Also, if the master had some problems with sealing, but the mech should catch that.
Thanks for the update,

Richard

Mark_88 · Dec 27, 2012

Yeah, thanks for the update...nothing like pouring your heart into a post and not hear back from someone...like my old girlfriend...haha...

kimcrwbr1 · Dec 27, 2012

Did you look close at the self adjusters and how they work. with them all together it will be easy to turn the adjuster in one direction look at the threads when it turns easy the threads should be making the shoes push apart. If it clicks easy and the shoes get closer the adjuster are possibly on the wrong sides. Been there done that, the way I adjust rear brakes after putting new shoes and drums is with both wheels off the ground and the tranny in neutral turn the tire forward and adjust them out until you feelslight resistance from the brake usually around half a turn of the tire you hear the brakes rubbing. When driving on icy roads I allways use the e brake when approaching a stop light/sign just hold out on the release knob and feather the ebrake. Having an automatic tranny I shift into neutral to maintain control with the front wheels. very seldom use the brake pedal. We got so many hills around here you dont want to lock up the front wheels we got alot of ditches also.

Back brakes still not working very well at all

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