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fluid back flow


Ranger Rod

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It began randomly rather than every time driven, but now every time shut down she spews a full sized puddle unless VERY low (low enough for slipping)the result of this condition. It seems I am unable to get a reading on the stick with the motor running which is how I was taught unless this rule has changed? The back pressure from what appears like a vapour lock once shut down is not so great that I cannot supress the back flow with my thumb over the filler tube, however obviously this still needs to be fixed, a cork would suffice but for fear of doing large damage? It was suggested that I ensure flow within the transmission cooling system by blowing air within which I did through and through, no blockage there. The rebuilt automatic transmission surely has less than 100K on it. Any thoughts please and thanks?
 
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RonD

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It reads like transmission is getting a Hot Spot inside...............but it could be faulty/leaking trans-cooler in radiator.
If water/coolant gets inside transmission it boils after engine/trans is shut off, causing rapid expansion and the overflow out the filler tube.

Check coolant level and if you see ATF in the coolant

Yes, you check trans fluid level with engine/transmission running, in Park or Neutral.


There is a Vent(breather) hose on the top of the transmission, its possible it is blocked, but not sure you would get the overflow issue, maybe
 

Ranger Rod

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It reads like transmission is getting a Hot Spot inside...............but it could be faulty/leaking trans-cooler in radiator.
If water/coolant gets inside transmission it boils after engine/trans is shut off, causing rapid expansion and the overflow out the filler tube.

Check coolant level and if you see ATF in the coolant

Yes, you check trans fluid level with engine/transmission running, in Park or Neutral.


There is a Vent(breather) hose on the top of the transmission, its possible it is blocked, but not sure you would get the overflow issue, maybe
Ron, thank you.

So, yes the coolant was down a tad, and yes 1/16 to 1/8 inch globules are present but the globs do not resemble trans fluid but are a lot paler in colour unless this is what happens when mixed, and yes globs tend to be floating as would oil in water.

A question about the boiling, in troubleshooting I did not actually drive the truck, therefore is an idle out of gear enough to heat things up sufficiently to cause the boil you mention?

In affirming it is in fact and or in the process of elimination, would the assumption of changing out the rad or installing a stand alone external rad for the trans be sufficient recourse together with changing rad fluid? Is a rad shop able to re-core such a rad cost effectively?

Note: The trans fluid which overflowed does not appear as separated, or otherwise as being two different substances such as oil and water, is that indicative?

Thanks kindly Rod
 

RonD

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If the heat exchanger(trans cooler) in the radiator is leaking then you have to change the whole radiator.

And best to flush engine and trans, and then refill, IF this is the problem

You could unhook both trans cooler lines from radiator
Then use a Cooling system pressure tester(hand pump with pressure gauge on rad cap fitting) to pressurize the radiator and see if it is leaking pressure, and if so you would see coolant start to drip out of trans cooler line fittings on radiator.

You can drain the ATF into a pan then pour off the top ATF and put the rest in a clear glass container, coolant/water would settle to the bottom


But if trans is cold and it happens then I would look elsewhere
Check Vent tube and trans cooler tubes, could be a kink in the metal tube blocking flow, or obstruction
 

Ranger Rod

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If the heat exchanger(trans cooler) in the radiator is leaking then you have to change the whole radiator.

And best to flush engine and trans, and then refill, IF this is the problem

You could unhook both trans cooler lines from radiator
Then use a Cooling system pressure tester(hand pump with pressure gauge on rad cap fitting) to pressurize the radiator and see if it is leaking pressure, and if so you would see coolant start to drip out of trans cooler line fittings on radiator.

You can drain the ATF into a pan then pour off the top ATF and put the rest in a clear glass container, coolant/water would settle to the bottom


But if trans is cold and it happens then I would look elsewhere
Check Vent tube and trans cooler tubes, could be a kink in the metal tube blocking flow, or obstruction
I have previously put air to the cooler lines and have good flow in all directions.
Curiosity; First thought regarding a boil one would think great heat, yet I put my thumb over the filler tube to restrict back flow without concern towards being burned all be it the “trans fluid” exiting the filler tube was barely warm,,, is it reasonable to think were it the liquid being under the trans fluid that is doing the expanding, and hence forcing the upper floating layer of trans fluid out in precession?
In so far as the test you mention by way of removing cooler lines and pressurizing the rad, in the absence of a tool with gauge would it not also work to remove those lines as you say and bring motor to full operating temp with rad cap secure and inspect for leakage of “coolant” at the trans cooler line connection points of the rad, or would that degree of pressure not be insufficient (and too the cooler lines would leak if not purposely blocked)? I am thinking if it is operating temp pressure in the rad allowing coolant to enter the trans then this would show consistent and still leak as described? If to do it this way should I be concerned about the trans overheating and being damaged?
I was thinking in the event of this in fact being the problem then, pull the cooler lines and stop up the connection points on the rad itself, then install a standalone cooler for a fraction of the cost of either a new or re-core rad???
I shall be crawling on the floor and know space is very restricted between the floor pan and the trans, so may I please ask where do I feel for the vent, or am I looking for an actual tube of what material?
After thought, could one drain the trans by running motor with cooler lines disconnected and save dropping the pan?
 
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RonD

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If you start the engine with trans cooler lines disconnected you will have a big MESS, as transmission is will be sending out fluid from one of those lines
 

Ranger Rod

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If you start the engine with trans cooler lines disconnected you will have a big MESS, as transmission is will be sending out fluid from one of those lines
I could segment the line with approved tubing and clamp off with vise grips.
 

Ranger Rod

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If you start the engine with trans cooler lines disconnected you will have a big MESS, as transmission is will be sending out fluid from one of those lines
Question, would I run a risk of damaging seals if to put air to the filler tube in an effort to ensure the vent is doing it's job, or is this just a dumb idea all around?
 

Ranger Rod

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summery

First off a thank you to Ron for his valued input.


To answer if putting air to the filler tube was a good idea, not likely as the blockage was surly to firm to have dislodged with this idea.


Found the air vent which some would find helpful to know is located top dead center of the trans body just to the fore of the tail stock. It is not a tube of any material but a plug of sorts with a cap crimped over the top which allows it to swivel, maybe spring loaded, but not sure because I did not have a visual. I was able to free the cap by using a small pry bar and then wiggle wiggle wiggle until floating free again.

Note: she was down about a gallon of fluid which was why I was unable to get a reading on the stick, because adding fluid without the vent working backed up the entire system enough to let the functions engage yet flow out the filler tube fooling one into thinking there was more in there than actually was.

I must attribute the pinkish globs in the coolant to a previous repair, likely a catch basin used for multiple liquids during trans and engine rebuild I did years back.

Lots of other fixes coming up to get this unit back on the road, till then....
 

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