Bugging Out / Survival

Will said:

That, and your injection pump has an electric shut-off valve. You need to convert it to a manual valve, and I know that is available for the DB2. You might have an electric lift pump as well.

I really think a gasoline engine is a better bet. They are less sensitive to bad fuel and any idiot can work on them. I would pick one and convert it to use the simplest parts. A cheap, simple carb and ignition system. Use the same engine for your generator. A natural gas conversion might be good. Even after the collapse of society I'm willing to bet there will be billions of tons of gas caught in the pipeline system throughout the country for years. You need a squad of trained people to make stealth missions into the cities to tap into it and compress it into mobile tanks.

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really? gas motors are less sensitive to bad fuel? i always figured the diesel's would win in that category since they'll run on dumb stuff like veggie oil and other recycled oils... thats def. something interesting to check out!

Ok, here we go....

Pretty much anything with a manual transmission can be "pop started." Doesn't matter if it's new or not, I've started my 2000 Ranger that way, my 95 F-150 and even an 89 F-350. The biggest problem with doing that to a gas vehicle is that depending on motor size and compression, you may need more than a short downhill run. And with diesel in the cold, you're going to have a problem where the diesel may be too cold to start without glow plugs or a block warmer.

An EMP attack will likely trash any electronics in a vehicle. Yes, a vehicle is isolated from the ground by the rubber tires, but that will not save it (same as an airplane that is not hardened against EMP will suffer). There are ways to help harden an auto, but without tearing it apart and shielding all of the wiring, something will likely be fried. Best way to save things is to keep a set of tested spares stored in an improvised Faraday Cage. Just putting them in an ammo can or a foil wrapped box is not enough, they need to be properly grounded and shielded. Microwaves are not the best for this (but they could be used to add an extra layer of protection). Microwaves are shielded for radiation but not impenetrable (a properly constructed Faraday Cage is impenetrable).

Gasoline not only has a short shelf life, but it also requires difficult refining and because of the popularity of gasoline driven vehicles, it will likely run out quickly after a major breakdown in society. Diesel has a much longer shelf life and a usable form of diesel could be refined without majorly expensive equipment.

Batteries are a weak spot. Even storing a new battery doesn't mean it will work 10 or 20 years down the road. A gel-cell like the Optima batteries would likely store better than a regular battery though.

Realistically, if the SHTF, banding together in small groups and having a defensible and stocked retreat to run to would be the best way to survive the initial collapse. But you would have to be prepared to bug out BEFORE things can get really bad. At the first sign of trouble, you'd have to go. After the initial collapse, there may end up being a time period where being in a group tied to a fixed location will spell trouble.

Food (especially seeds and the ability to grow your own food) is important. There is usually a 3-6 month supply of food around here and it could probably be reasonably stretched another couple months if needed. It's not enough for a real collapse, but it's enough for any "normal" disasters that may occur.

Currency will likely be precious metals, food, ammo, alcohol, and other such barter items in the event of a collapse. Owning precious metals through a broker (where you don't actually get to hold the precious metal in your hands) will prove useless in a collapse.

I'd say that as far as weapons, a group standard should be maintained and pick useful calibers that are somewhat popular. (Having a .416 Rigby makes for a pretty serious chunk of lead to throw at something but ammo will be beyond scarce in the event of a collapse). AK weapons, AR weapons, 9mm, .40, .45, 12 gauge, 20 gauge, 30-06, .308, .270 will all be "good" choices. Cartridges such as the .220 swift, .222, and a couple others will be relatively useful since they use the same bullet as the .223, but brass and reloading components will disappear after awhile. Muzzleloaders will be useful for a LONG time, but not the "inline" ones, I'm talking the old-school flintlocks. Unfortunately tire wheel weights are not a pure enough lead to use for casting bullets for them, it's too hard of an alloy and will damage the barrel after repeated use. But you would be able to use them to stretch the amount of pure lead you have access to (maybe one ounce of wheel weight to one pound of lead, not much but it gets you an extra bullet or two).

I'll stop there for the moment....

Will said:

There used to be a rumor that the Soviets used vacuum tubes in their planes instead of solid state because of EMP.

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not a rumor.

lil_Blue_Ford said:

I'll stop there for the moment....

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Make it a generous one.

Diesel fuel systems are very delicate. In 2011, we don't notice it much. Lurking in the offing, though, are many enemies. If you read about yachts that travel the world you will encounter something called a Baja filter and you will read about fuel polishing. The basic problem is that diesel and water are similar densities. If you are used to slinging 5-gallon cans of petrol and you grab up a 5-gallon can of diesel, your shoulder might pop out of the socket. In diesel fuel, water can float around inside the fuel instead of dropping to the bottom. Bacteria in the water begins to eat the fuel and multiply into a little continent of gelatinous yick. That crap jams up your fuel system. Even if bacteria doens't grow in your fuel, water can't be ignited by squirting it into hot air. A single drop of water can shut down a massive diesel engine. A gas engine can digest a tablespoon of H2O with a few emphazemic coughs and curse words. You can't fix a diesel injection pump in the field. It's a 3,000psi system on a low pressure IDI--that means absolute precision and cleanliness. Any ashole with an airhose can clean out a balky carb.

Making your own veggie fuel and such is great. But lets say there is no disaster and you want a vehicle to mount a snowplow on and never use until you need it, what engine do you want? A little fuel stabilizer in the fall in the Chevy 350 plow truck and put the charger on it for an hour in the winter after sitting for 7 months and that fawker is going. A diesel, forget it. My IDI truck needs, even in the summer, 2 strong batteries, a good 10 second plug burn and absolutely no air in the system. Old fuel in a deezel? Don't even try to start it.

On the issue of air--it's tought to diagnose a leak in a diesel fuel system. The fuel doesn't evaporate so it's everywhere. One tiny leak anywhere and the truck won't start. It can takes days of crawling around with dye in it and black light to find a problem. A gas motor--nothing slows it down.

I'm a diesel guy, don't get me wrong. My daily driver is a Passat Tdi. My work truck is an IDI diesel. My RV is a diesel. I've had issues with all of them. I know what I'm talking about. In survival mode, you don't have time for everything. Polishing fuel for a diesel is one thing you don't have time for as you aren't going to be getting it out of a pump.

Honestly i think an emp burst is the last thing we should be worried about right now for several reasons. First off an emp burst is no different than any other type of attack, it will not be 100% effective. All electronics will not fail, in fact most would probabky survive. Many modern electronics are already shielded against interference from other devices or even other components of the same device. Even objects that arent shielded would have a fair chance of survival based on their proximity to more electromagnetically attractive objects. The power grid would remain largly unaffected. At the end of the day the power grid is a bunch of copper and steel wires. After an emp burst it would still be a bunch of coper and steel wires. Most transmission and distribution circuits are protected by fuzes with reclosers that work much like a thermal flasher relay, they would not be harmed. Transformers, switches, and capacitors would not be harmed. Worst case scenario would be the emp pulls the power out of phase temporarily. Sure it might piss off a state for a day or two, but it wouldn't cause the socio-economic or civil collapse of the nation.

A far more real threat is mass civil disobedience, in other words rioting. In our current state i am much more concerned about the american government overthrowing its self than some terror group from a far off land.

CHKNFKR said:

A far more real threat is mass civil disobedience, in other words rioting. In our current state i am much more concerned about the american government overthrowing its self than some terror group from a far off land.

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That's definitely a threat s well.

Don't rule out the EMP. It's very probable. A strong enough EMP blast wouldn't destroy the lines, but would destroy things along the lines. I don't think anyone ever thought terrorists would bring down the twin towers, but they did.

Terrorists will attack our infrastructure/utilities. Just look at the water pump incident recently in Illinois.

You can't have a 1940-70's look on the world with the attitude that nobody will invade and take over the U.S. We're in the times of terrorism more so than wars over territory ownership/control. The biggest threat to the U.S. is terrorists who will cause havock on the U.S. for years to come. It's not as much of an issue of a country wanting to take over the U.S. and set up their own government, but they would like to see ours fail.

Survivalistboards.com some pretty interesting stuff, some absolutely stupid stuff, some of those guys have some gnarly bugout vehicles everything from boxes mounted outboard on a prius to unimogs. It's interesting enough that I stalk there from time to time. As far as serious SHTF I will be leaving early and getting my butt outta Charlotte and heading home to the mtn's of Western North Carolina. If Eric Rudolf can hide there with people actually looking for him I bet I can avoid people just freaking out in general

Well, when the zombies attack I plan to drive straight to Wal Mart, I'll drive my truck through the grocery cart door and park it (gotta make sure my RBV is safe before anything else), then I seal all the doors down and plan to live in there as long as I can see viable.

I'll have chainsaws to fight back, plenty of food to eat, and plenty of clothes to wear.

Oh and I forgot to say, Ill fill my truck bed with the city's most beautiful girls before hitting wal mart... ill let them know I'm saving their lives and they'll owe me eternally once inside the wal mart

gjm4l said:

Survivalistboards.com some pretty interesting stuff, some absolutely stupid stuff, some of those guys have some gnarly bugout vehicles everything from boxes mounted outboard on a prius to unimogs. It's interesting enough that I stalk there from time to time. As far as serious SHTF I will be leaving early and getting my butt outta Charlotte and heading home to the mtn's of Western North Carolina. If Eric Rudolf can hide there with people actually looking for him I bet I can avoid people just freaking out in general

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i'll meet up with you dude!!

BDAB said:

http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/08/real_world_emp_effects_on_moto.html

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I had a feeling

the FMCSA did a study in 2004 to see if the Transportation industry could still function so FEMA could still function and most trucks will still run so I figured the same for cars. It would still be a good idea to stock up on electronic components and put them in sealed static bags and lock them in an ammo cam......... I would also try to figure out a way to air start your IDI or powerstroke.......... batteries don't last forever ..... I am lucky to get years on the international with out cracking one. I know a guy with an early 80's Marmon still on the original air starter.

BDAB said:

the FMCSA did a study in 2004 to see if the Transportation industry could still function so FEMA could still function and most trucks will still run so I figured the same for cars. It would still be a good idea to stock up on electronic components and put them in sealed static bags and lock them in an ammo cam......... I would also try to figure out a way to air start your IDI or powerstroke.......... batteries don't last forever ..... I am lucky to get years on the international with out cracking one. I know a guy with an early 80's Marmon still on the original air starter.

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An air starter is good but even it needs a backup. If something happens and you lose air pressure you're just as screwed as having a dead battery.

a 15 gal air tank will hold enough air to start an "A" model cat that has sat with out running for a month.

I get that, but shit happens. Air leaks, lines blow, thieves rob parts. No air means no start. I was a heavy wheeled vehicle mechanic and recovery specialist for the army for 6 years. Air systems are great on smooth pavement. Off road and on unimproved roads they are a nightmare. Thieves will f*** you the first chance they get, especially in the post apocolyptic scenario.

Its definatwly a good idea, but still requires a backup, at least in my book.