High rpm gear lockout (possible clutch drag or clutch not fully disengaging)

General info:
2002 Ranger
2.0L ecoboost
M5OD-R1 trans
2wd

So, as the title states, my 2.0 ecoboost swapped ranger is having quite an odd issue. I have a stock m5od-r1 transmission, stock clutch master cylinder, stock slave cylinder (basically all stock hydraulics). Along with that I'm using an aftermarket ceramic unsprung 6 puck clutch for all the power that little 2.0 eco puts down, and the stock flywheel. Please for the love of god, do not tell me its the clutch master cylinder that needs bleeding! It is not, that thing has been bled so much and there is no possible way there is air in the system. Now, onto my issue. At low rpms (like anything below 2000ish) the truck shifts fine. Lugging it around in low rpms sucks but it works for some odd reason. After around probably 2500 rpm in 2nd, putting the clutch in and trying to shift to 3rd, the clutch either drags or doesn't disengage fully and locks me out of 3rd. Keeping the clutch in and waiting for rpms to drop to something like 1500-1800 lets me pop it into 3rd flawlessly. Before this motor swap everything worked just fine with the 2.3 duratec the truck originally has and this issue wasn't present. The only other thing that was slightly changed was the stock master cylinder, which has 2 washers set behind it to move it forward just a tad since the aftermarket clutch had issues disengaging after it was installed. If anyone has even the slightest bit of advice, please feel free to throw it down. I'm at a complete loss for what the issue is and it really makes driving this thing a bit tedious waiting for rpms to drop just so I can actually shift.

Just out of curiosity have you tried doing your 2nd to 3rd shift without using the clutch? As in, when you're ready to shift, let off the gas and slip the shifter out of 2nd and quickly into 3rd without touching the clutch pedal. If you can do that, it would seem to rule out the transmission completely.

I don't know why the washers behind the master cylinder would make any difference unless you just do not have enough throw in the clutch pedal to begin with - and to me, with a hydraulic system like this, that is HIGHLY unlikely. Cable or mechanical linkage - sure.

Two other possibilities:

1) You're at the end of the slave cylinder/throwout bearing's range of travel and it simply cannot release the clutch any further. At this point I would try to either shim the slave cylinder towards the engine, or shim the flywheel - either way will get the two pieces closer together and hopefully complete clutch disengagement.

2) The clutch disc is simply just a hair too thick and the pressure plate doesn't have enough movement to allow it to disengage completely. I imagine you could potentially add very thin shims between it and the flywheel. I think this is very unlikely.

Shran said:

Just out of curiosity have you tried doing your 2nd to 3rd shift without using the clutch? As in, when you're ready to shift, let off the gas and slip the shifter out of 2nd and quickly into 3rd without touching the clutch pedal. If you can do that, it would seem to rule out the transmission completely.

I don't know why the washers behind the master cylinder would make any difference unless you just do not have enough throw in the clutch pedal to begin with - and to me, with a hydraulic system like this, that is HIGHLY unlikely. Cable or mechanical linkage - sure.

Two other possibilities:

1) You're at the end of the slave cylinder/throwout bearing's range of travel and it simply cannot release the clutch any further. At this point I would try to either shim the slave cylinder towards the engine, or shim the flywheel - either way will get the two pieces closer together and hopefully complete clutch disengagement.

2) The clutch disc is simply just a hair too thick and the pressure plate doesn't have enough movement to allow it to disengage completely. I imagine you could potentially add very thin shims between it and the flywheel. I think this is very unlikely.

Click to expand...

On my way to work today I actually did attempt that. Without using the clutch at all It would not go from 2nd to 3rd until rpms dipped just like I would normally have to do when using the clutch. This issue to me seems to be on and off sometimes. 2nd to 3rd shifts and 3rd to 4th are the most noticeable when I get locked out of a gear for at most a few seconds. Right now its my daily, so I would like to figure out why shifting is a bit "notchy" and why these lockouts are even happening. Its a bit weird how if I lug it around at really low rpms (like below 2000) all notchyness and lockouts completely stop.

This seems to me like something is being affected by centrifugal forces as RPM goes up.

Is the clutch you're using one of those styles that have weights on the pressure plate to increase the clamping force at high RPM?

Is this the same actual clutch you had with the 2.3L when it was fine?

Answers to these might be able to help us narrow it down...

Your having to put washers to reposition the MC I'll bet is related.

4x4junkie said:

This seems to me like something is being affected by centrifugal forces as RPM goes up.

Is the clutch you're using one of those styles that have weights on the pressure plate to increase the clamping force at high RPM?

Is this the same actual clutch you had with the 2.3L when it was fine?

Answers to these might be able to help us narrow it down...

Your having to put washers to reposition the MC I'll bet is related.

Click to expand...

The aftermarket clutch I got was never used with the 2.3 duratec. I am unsure if it has weights on the pressure plate. Also keep in mind when I first installed this clutch I didn't shim the slave cylinder. When it was all back together the clutch wouldn't disengage at all. Took it all back apart and shimmed it and it worked just fine besides the rpm related gear lockout im getting now.

In the FSM it states the TO bearing (slave cyl) should have a minimum travel of 0.3 inch (7.5mm) when the pedal is fully depressed (travel is measured through the inspection port on the lower-driver side of the bellhousing).
If travel is this amount or more, then the hydraulics can be ruled out as the issue, more likely it's with the clutch components themselves (misaligned PP, damaged components, wrong application, etc.). If travel is less than this though, then yeah, hydraulics most likely (or maybe pedal travel is being restricted by something (floor mat, etc.).

Maybe this can help you narrow it down.

Something else I just thought of, the flywheel being too far away from the slave (due to having the different engine) could cause this too, though I'm thinking the slave cyl piston would just come all the way out of the housing and it start leaking if this was the case... Not sure.
Some ideas to check for anyway.

Maybe a stupid question, but does the M5OD/bellhousing bolt directly to the newer 2.0 Ecoboost block? Or was there an adapter plate used?



GB

4x4junkie said:

In the FSM it states the TO bearing (slave cyl) should have a minimum travel of 0.3 inch (7.5mm) when the pedal is fully depressed (travel is measured through the inspection port on the lower-driver side of the bellhousing).
If travel is this amount or more, then the hydraulics can be ruled out as the issue, more likely it's with the clutch components themselves (misaligned PP, damaged components, wrong application, etc.). If travel is less than this though, then yeah, hydraulics most likely (or maybe pedal travel is being restricted by something (floor mat, etc.).

Maybe this can help you narrow it down.

Something else I just thought of, the flywheel being too far away from the slave (due to having the different engine) could cause this too, though I'm thinking the slave cyl piston would just come all the way out of the housing and it start leaking if this was the case... Not sure.
Some ideas to check for anyway.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply! I will be sure to check the travel today to see how far its actually moving. This really is an odd Issue since with the old 2.3 motor the truck shifted fine.

Bird76Mojo said:

Maybe a stupid question, but does the M5OD/bellhousing bolt directly to the newer 2.0 Ecoboost block? Or was there an adapter plate used?


GB

Click to expand...

No adapter plate! Do some research on the mazda L series block if you're interested in this. A 2.3 duratec from 2002 is very similar to the newer ecoboost motors.

To me this sounds more like the the clutch plate is not fully disengaging still after you shimming the slave cylinder. If this is the case it would explain why you are getting the lockout issues. The clutch disk is keeping pressure on the tans gears causing the lockout.

Every manual I have had tried to speed shift in I needed to pop the shifter out of gear press it lightly against the next gear up and wait for RPM's to match with vehicle speed to allow it to go into gear. This sounds just like your issue you are having now, which is why it sounds to me the clutch still is not disengaging fully.

Added info, to speed shift to a lower gear you need to raise the RPM's to synchronize the gears to allow them to mesh. Its done by matching the RPM out put to the input shaft speed. same as up shifting, you need to match the speed.

Bgunner said:

To me this sounds more like the the clutch plate is not fully disengaging still after you shimming the slave cylinder. If this is the case it would explain why you are getting the lockout issues. The clutch disk is keeping pressure on the tans gears causing the lockout.

Every manual I have had tried to speed shift in I needed to pop the shifter out of gear press it lightly against the next gear up and wait for RPM's to match with vehicle speed to allow it to go into gear. This sounds just like your issue you are having now, which is why it sounds to me the clutch still is not disengaging fully.

Added info, to speed shift to a lower gear you need to raise the RPM's to synchronize the gears to allow them to mesh. Its done by matching the RPM out put to the input shaft speed. same as up shifting, you need to match the speed.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I get the whole concept of rev matching. Was just kind of under the assumption that this wouldn't really be an issue. And today on my way home from work a let it wide open and from 2nd to 3rd actually shifted smoothly. same with 3rd to 4th. Almost like this clutch likes being beat up more than being lugged around at lower rpms.

I'm thinking there's still air in the system. Especially since these clutch systems are so tricky to get bled correctly/completely. Air in the system can often act this way. Being ok at times and at other times being a royal pain in the arse.


GB