Checking here and there for ideas.

Ok, We put plates on our '89 bronco II finally.

We went on the 'first trip' out, and it was blowing smoke (blue) for a while. Probably due to the fact I soaked the cylinder walls with oil while we had the heads off for a couple of weeks. LOL. Anyhoo, just about filled it with 93 octane, let it mix with the double dose of injector cleaner and old gas, and at least the stinky exhaust went away, along with much of the blue smoke LOL.

Here's what we've noted:

First gear? (al4d) feels like crap. It shifts into all gears (thankfully) very harsh/hard. According to the braintrust we purchased it from? He dropped the transmission and swapped it for one from a mustang. He also 'rebuilt' it (thinking he did a basic soft-rebuild with just seals). I've got an idea the mustang transmission had a shift kit installed, and would account for the hard/sharp shifts. He did wind up changing out the rear housing for the fake transfer case. So all in all? It's running down the road so-so. I checked overdrive, and it's fully functional..and I punched it on the highway and it does have decent power.

So that's the first one...

Second problem? Gauges. Voltmeter seems to be a bit jumpy into the "low" area. Could be a dirty connection, who knows? (I'll drop an actually multimeter across the battery to see how it's running)

As for the oil pressure? Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Yep...it's got I figure one of those darn 'fake gauges'. Drove it around for a while, and the pressure stayed right in the middle...even after at temp, and low speeds/stop. The fun part? Coming to a dead stop for a light or other? Total loss of all pressure according to the gauge. Dropped to 'zippola'.. Then it would spike up and down from zero to middle....back to zero...then back to normal?!? Engine seems to be ok, it did sound a touch 'noisy' when the gauge flatlined...but I can't be sure of it? (was to busy hitting the panic button for being on a main street with zero oil pressure LOL)

So in a couple of days (thanksgiving actually) I'll be changing out the oil, and inspecting it for metal crud...new filter.. One qt. of Lucas, and 4 qts of 10w40 high mileage.

Plus as an added bonus? Picked up a triple gauge pack. Going to tie into the oil pressure 'port' and chain off a mechanical gauge, temp gauge, and ampmeter.

I figure what could be happening? Other then a bad set of contacts? It might have enough oil pressure to fool the gauge as it's warming up, and driving down the road. But come to a dead stop? It could be low enough to trigger the fake gauge into tripping. As the pressure starts to raise up? It might be right on the edge and the gauge is spiking.

I'll know for sure once I replace the gauges with the aftermarket ones. Just looking for ideas and such. It's possible the connection or sender might be going bad? But the way it acted? Was more like it was extremely low on oil, and sloshing forward away from the pickup when coming to a 'hard' stop. (it's full and pretty clean, so I figured it's cheap to change it out and drop in the lucas/filter at the same time)

Ideas welcome

S-

Tedybear said:

We went on the 'first trip' out, and it was blowing smoke (blue) for a while. Probably due to the fact I soaked the cylinder walls with oil while we had the heads off for a couple of weeks.

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Good chance thats a death sentence for the O2 sensor

Anyhoo, just about filled it with 93 octane, let it mix with the double dose of injector cleaner and old gas, and at least the stinky exhaust went away, along with much of the blue smoke LOL.

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93 octane in unecessary in a 2.9

How much blue smoke is left?

Here's what we've noted:

First gear? (al4d) feels like crap. It shifts into all gears (thankfully) very harsh/hard. According to the braintrust we purchased it from? He dropped the transmission and swapped it for one from a mustang. He also 'rebuilt' it (thinking he did a basic soft-rebuild with just seals). I've got an idea the mustang transmission had a shift kit installed, and would account for the hard/sharp shifts. He did wind up changing out the rear housing for the fake transfer case. So all in all? It's running down the road so-so. I checked overdrive, and it's fully functional..and I punched it on the highway and it does have decent power.

So that's the first one...

Click to expand...

Let me get this straight....you knowingly bought an automatic BII?

Second problem? Gauges. Voltmeter seems to be a bit jumpy into the "low" area. Could be a dirty connection, who knows? (I'll drop an actually multimeter across the battery to see how it's running)

Click to expand...

Let me get this straight...you knowingly bought a BII with an automatic and electrical problems?

As for the oil pressure? Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Yep...it's got I figure one of those darn 'fake gauges'. Drove it around for a while, and the pressure stayed right in the middle...even after at temp, and low speeds/stop. The fun part? Coming to a dead stop for a light or other? Total loss of all pressure according to the gauge. Dropped to 'zippola'.. Then it would spike up and down from zero to middle....back to zero...then back to normal?!? Engine seems to be ok, it did sound a touch 'noisy' when the gauge flatlined...but I can't be sure of it? (was to busy hitting the panic button for being on a main street with zero oil pressure LOL)

Click to expand...

So let m....never mind.


I'd put a mechanical oil pressure guage on it immediately. If the pressure is low and theres any smoke either idling or when the gas is goosed, I'd start looking for a decent engine to replace it.


As for the electrical issues......it could either have bad oil pressure, electrical problems, charging system problems, or a combination of the three. I guess if I was stuck with this vehicle I'd get the alternator tested and completely remove the wiring harnesses and clean/refurbish as necessary.


Honestly, the vehicle doesn't sound like it's worth the trouble at any price.

Id say skip the lucas. theres already enough problems getting oil to the lifters and valvetrain without thick additive in there.

at least run it for a while on straight oil before adding the lucas.

get that good mechanical gauge on it and see what its really doing. I personally run 0w-30, but im in an extremely cold environment. if I dont change it to 0-30 in the winter it clatters for a while when i start it in the AM. 0w30 seems to stay thinner in the very cold, which allows it to oil up when I start it.

O2 sensor is new. After a few miles of driving the blue smoke and stinky exhaust vanished. No CEL while doing the driving. (the old sensor was snapped off)

93 Octane fuel was my intention for the first fill up. The fuel in the tank is how many months old? Or maybe almost a year old? Due to not knowing how long the truck sat around in this guys shop? I'll put it this way. Over time, sitting for a long while in any car or truck? The fuels octane rating will slowly drop. We had just about 1/4 tank...added 3 or so gallons two months ago..And 2 shots of injector cleaner. The addition of 93 octane (14 gals worth) will mix with the old crap and help boost the level as a whole. Plus it dilutes all the cleaners we used trying to get the injectors flushed out. (and the exhaust no longer reeks when we running it)

The main reason for doing all of this? I do love working on cars/trucks, and seldom get a decent chance. Plus this BII has zero rust for an 89 (save for some minor light rust just starting on the usual frame areas...not even deep LOL...could wipe it off with a shop rag)

I wouldn't mind dropping a manual into the truck if I had the time. But this is actually a decent looking runner, and does seem to have some life left to it. When I get the manual gauges onto it? I'll know the full score.

S-

low_five said:

Id say skip the lucas. theres already enough problems getting oil to the lifters and valvetrain without thick additive in there.

at least run it for a while on straight oil before adding the lucas.

get that good mechanical gauge on it and see what its really doing. I personally run 0w-30, but im in an extremely cold environment. if I dont change it to 0-30 in the winter it clatters for a while when i start it in the AM. 0w30 seems to stay thinner in the very cold, which allows it to oil up when I start it.

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We get a bit cold in upstate NY. I had one older car ('78 sport fury) that had (get this one LOL) At idle? 2-3lbs of oil pressure. We wound up putting 20w50 into it. It made it all the way to 6lbs when hot after that LOL.

The van I still drive (until they re-claim it) uses 0w40 syn. It's thin as water. Can't see using it on an older gas truck. (the ow40 is a sprinter with the v6 turbo diesel) I figure 10w40 should be good enough for a truck with over 125,000 on it.

As for the Lucas? That is how we shut the noisy lifters up in my wifes probe GT. 2.2 4 banger with intercooled turbo. That car could blow most others off the road. But the lifters? Sounded like nickles in a tin can most of the time. One oil change with Lucas and a decent filter? Quiet as a church mouse.

S-

Ok, I suppose if I bought it and it had those symptoms, I'd

check the oil pressure with a decent mechanical gauge

check the oil and see if it has any white color/streaks, indicating coolant is getting into it (could be cracks or gaskets)

cut the filter open with shears (as not to create metal particles) and examine the pleats and the drained oil for metal flakes/metal glitter

put a cooling system pressure tester on and see if the system holds pressure....maybe pull the valve covers off beforehand and look for water droplets on top of the heads


Any of these showing problems, and I'd probably look for another engine.


I'd check the voltage on the battery terminals (and the cable terminals, checking the connection....though I'd clean them up and inspect the cables too) while it's running, looking for 13 volts bare minimum, and if I didnt get proper voltage I'd have the alternator tested.

If this was a project vehicle, I'd probably remove all the harnesses, remove their covering, and inspect/clean/repair everything, paying close attention to the condition of the connector pins and I'd probably solder all factory splices knowing how theyve stood the test of time. The pain with this part is that there's a braided cover over the TFI part of the engine harness that obviously I couldn't cut, though I'd need to try to examine for insulation degradation on the wires inside as much as possible.

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25785

That's more of the "History" of this little project. The TFI did get replaced, along with the harness. And about a foot worth of the main computer harness-When the last owner broke the O2 sensor? He left the harness in place and it grounded out the 12v feed line to the O2 sensor (for the heating section) It melted a good amount of wiring together. Thankfully I'm trained in electronics repair and a former auto mechanic.

All that was fixed for the harness problems...save ONE issue. The feed line that goes from the solenoid to the under hood fuse panel. The feed wire is in poor shape. I'll do a voltage drop test on it and see if the battery is able to get a full charge. Replacing that won't be easy (and I'm hopeful not to have to) The local salvage yard wants $100.00 for just that box with some wires still attached. And the ones in the yard? Are actually in WORSE shape then what I'm dealing with! All the grounds to the battery/frame/engine are also new, or have had the bad sections cut out and the ends replaced. Thankfully Ford did give a few inches extra for the ground hookups, anything within 8" of the battery? The cables where badly caked with crap. Took a bit of doing to peal it back and get to fresh copper.

The only wild card? Would be that main fuse box feed line---I've got heavy (and I mean HEAVY) gauge wire for that application. Just hope that's not quite it. I did note the electric windows and wipers appear to be somewhat sluggish? Which if the alternator was not putting out the right amount? Would make sense. Question is--Would it be the alternator itself...or another wiring issue that has not surfaced yet.

I'll break out the multimeter again and do a full series of voltage drop tests along the alternator's harness. If it's there? I'll nail it. Heck, I'll start with ensuring the alternator is getting correct voltage to charge--and check for correct output first.

(yeah...gonna be a fun time)

S-

Ok, small update.

Truck had the oil changed (10w40 & lucas) Also pulled the oil sending unit, and replaced it with some 'plumbing' and added a new sender and a mechanical gauge. The old oil was fairly clean, but very 'thin'. Also noted the expected small amount of dead coolant mixed in. The amount was small, and most likely either from the old heads that where cracked, or some coolant worked it's way in while the heads where pulled.

Results:

Cold: 50-55lbs
Hot in gear (and idle) Runs just around 15lbs. It's normal enough, and it only drops that low after driving it for a while, and when the truck lowers the idle down in gear/park. Soon as you pull away and give 'er just a whisker of pedal? Raises up normally as expected. While 15lbs HOT at lower idle might seem bad? The engine is pretty quiet and does not have any oddball sounds at that point.

Start driving down the highway? And it pulls 50-60lbs without any problems. The sender was most likely bad, as the jumpy action ended with the new sender.

Results of the alternator hard test:

Charging at a decent rate while at fast idle. Hits about 15amps into the battery @ normal expected voltage.

Now under load at idle? It starts to get very weak. Increase idle @ load? Puts out normal expected voltage and amps. I'm fairly sure the alternator is still in fair shape, belt tension is decent.

That's it for the updates. It passed NY inspection this afternoon without any issues. The inspector even remarked it's in very good shape (under wise) for it's age.

S-

Don't let anybody beat you down on fixing the truck--it has(had all the symptoms/problems my '89 XLT had--I stuck with it for about 3 months--if the main ground cables haven't been changed recently, Change em(mine looked good on the out-side but were green/rotten on the inside). Get a Good repair manual---change xmsn oil/filter---adjust xmsn according to the manual--dump some Lucas auto/xmsn stuff in it--remove & clean any xmsn & differential sensor/test em w/ an ohm meter--if there's any life left in the truck, you'll notice the improvement-go from there.--also running 10w40 @ 180,003 miles...

doorgunner said:

Don't let anybody beat you down on fixing the truck--it has(had all the symptoms/problems my '89 XLT had--I stuck with it for about 3 months--if the main ground cables haven't been changed recently, Change em(mine looked good on the out-side but were green/rotten on the inside). Get a Good repair manual---change xmsn oil/filter---adjust xmsn according to the manual--dump some Lucas auto/xmsn stuff in it--remove & clean any xmsn & differential sensor/test em w/ an ohm meter--if there's any life left in the truck, you'll notice the improvement-go from there.--also running 10w40 @ 180,003 miles...

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Heck, I love a challenge. Our '75 F250 proves that.

I did change out the main pos. and main neg. cable to the engine. I had to be a bit creative with the neg. cable. Seems Ford used about 50 extra ground connections to the cable. I also found their "Creative" ground attachment to the frame behind the splash shield. So I whipped up extra terminal ends, extended and re-routed..and thankfully I had that splash shield removed for the brake work (nice way to route a brake line) Gave me a straight shot right to the engine bolt for the cable.

We've had our share of challenges with the ol' girl. Burnt up section of harness due to the last owner dropping in a "rebuilt" (yeah...sure) AL4D out of a mustang. He busted the o2 sensor, snapped it clean off the pipe. Then left the wiring floating around to short out the 12vdc feed. Did quite a bit of damage.

So far I'm happy with the progress. With the exception of needing a few smaller problems to be corrected. (cooling fan is cracked, replacement is on the way--until then? Restricted driving use--don't need a fan going 'pop' while driving) Need to pick up the correct oil pressure adapter, had to custom build one with a lot of extra crap that is annoying me.

I figure on Sunday I'll start doing more detail work. I've got a nagging urge to pull the cluster out and re-solder the connections and replace a few bulbs that are blown out. Plus I need to grease the speedo cable. It gets a bit jumpy. Thankfully (and shockingly) the Cruse works great!

The other annoying thing is the headlights. Must have been Fords first try at getting away from Sealed beam lights. The headlight lenses are badly frosted over and yellowed with age.

S-

Tedybear said:

The van I still drive (until they re-claim it) uses 0w40 syn. It's thin as water. Can't see using it on an older gas truck. (the ow40 is a sprinter with the v6 turbo diesel) I figure 10w40 should be good enough for a truck with over 125,000 on it.
S-

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thats the whole point of 0w30 weight, is that its thin at very cold temps. and equally thin at high temps.

I guess if you dont want to oil your valvetrain the first 5 seconds every time you start the truck, thats cool with me.

low_five said:

thats the whole point of 0w30 weight, is that its thin at very cold temps. and equally thin at high temps.

I guess if you dont want to oil your valvetrain the first 5 seconds every time you start the truck, thats cool with me.

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Not quite correct. Almost there...

0w30 oil is designed for engines that have very tight bearing clearances. Normally imports use the Mobil 1 type (as in the Sprinter I have for work) The sprinter also has a turbo charger, which has tight bearing clearances-so getting oil pressure and volume is critical.

Consider exactly how a rotating shaft using a bearing works--not a roller bearing, but the type we see used on cranks and cams. If anyone thinks the 'shaft' rides on the bearing itself? I'll sell them a bridge in NYC. Oil pressure/volume is routed to the bearings and the 'shaft' actually FLOATS within the bearing. Perhaps the shaft "Riding" or spinning on a thin layer of oil would be a better description. Any contact between the two can bring the life of the engine to a very quick end.

Here is the tricky part. Take an engine with low miles on it, and low wear. The crank and cam are still in good shape, with tight bearing clearances. 5 or 0w30 would be ideal. The oil would pump up pretty quick, and provide the thin layer the rotating part rides on.

But take an older engine, one that has high miles on it..and the parts have a fair amount of wear and tear. Does anyone think using very thin oil would be a good idea? Yeah it would pump up fast, however it would not be able to build up a decent amount of pressure. You'd have all sorts of oil volume flowing!! But the oil pressure is what counts when you have rotating parts riding on a thin film of oil. If the bearings are worn? The thinner oil won't build enough pressure for the rotating parts to ride on safely.

Some interesting info:

Viscosity is a measure of the "flowability" of an oil. More specifically, it is the property of an oil to develop and maintain a certain amount of sheering stress dependent on flow and then to offer continued resistance to flow. Thicker oils generally have a higher viscosity, and thinner oils a lower viscosity. This is the most important property for an engine. An oil with too low a viscosity can shear and loose film strength at high temperatures. An oil with too high a viscosity may not pump to the proper parts at low temperatures and the film may tear at high rpm.

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http://www.aa1car.com/library/us1097.htm

In a high mileage engine, low oil pressure is often due to a combination of worn main and rod bearings and crankshaft journals. The oil pump itself does not create pressure. It produces flow and the resistance to that flow produces pressure. Resistance is created by the orifices in the engine block through which the oil flows, and the amount of clearance between the bearings and crankshaft journals. As the bearings wear, clearances increase allowing increased flow which reduces pressure.

Okay, so you already knew that. But what you may not realize is that it doesn't take much of an increase in bearing clearances to cause a noticeable drop in oil pressure as well as noise. This applies to brand new engines as well as high mileage ones.

Excessive bearing clearances (more than about .001 inch per inch of diameter of the crankshaft journal) can cause up to a 20 percent or greater drop in oil pressure, which may in turn have an adverse effect on lubrication elsewhere in the engine (such as the camshaft and upper valvetrain, especially in overhead cam engines). Whether the excessive clearances are due to normal wear or "loose" assembly tolerances makes no difference because the end result is exactly the same. Excessive bearing clearances will also increase engine noise and pounding, which over time can lead to bearing fatigue and failure.

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Also note the condition of the oil and make sure it is the correct viscosity for the application. Heavier viscosity oils such as 20W-50, straight 30W and 40W may help maintain good oil pressure in hot weather, but are too thick for cold weather driving and may cause start-up lubrication problems especially in overhead cam engines. Light viscosity oils, on the other hand, such as straight 10W or 5W-20 may improve cold weather starting and lubrication, but may be too thin for hot weather driving to maintain good oil pressure. That is why most OEMs today recommend 5W-30 for year-round driving in modern engines.

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Ok, lot's of info...What does that mean to an engine running decent, but with high miles on it?

High mile engines have worn parts. Using oil that is to thin won't be able to do the job once things get hot under the hood. And sense I have no desire at this time to yank the engine out of the truck and rebuild/refresh it with new bearings and such? I choose to run a slightly thicker oil in order to allow the system to build up a bit more oil pressure, combined with the Lucas to prevent the dry start problems associated with the thicker oil.

If the engine was able to maintain high pressure (stock) on the recommended oil right out of the box? I'd stick with using a 5w30. Sense it was not able to maintain decent oil pressure once hot and at temp? Bumping it up a notch did help. Is it a full "Cure" for the engine? Not by a long shot. It's a band-aid designed to give or prolong the life of the engine more. At some point in time I will have to either rebuild this one, or pick up a salvage yard engine and rebuild it for a direct swap once this one gives it up. But as a short term fix to get the job done? (And because I do not have the time nor $$ to do an effective teardown/rebuild) It'll work for the time being.

S-

Tedybear said:

Not quite correct. Almost there...

0w30 oil is designed for engines that have very tight bearing clearances. Normally imports use the Mobil 1 type (as in the Sprinter I have for work) The sprinter also has a turbo charger, which has tight bearing clearances-so getting oil pressure and volume is critical.

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Id agree with you if you were right, but actually 0w30 is designed for cold temperatures, not for tolerances.

from the mobil1 website:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-30.aspx

"Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy is engineered to deliver outstanding engine protection and to offer improved fuel economy in vehicles where SAE 0W-30, 5W-30 or 10W-30 oil is recommended. "

"Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy is recommended for all types of modern gasoline engines found in passenger cars, SUVs, vans and light trucks. It provides the superior low temperature protection of a 0W grade while providing the high temperature performance of an SAE 30.

Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy is especially suitable for extreme conditions where conventional oil often cannot perform."

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Here is the tricky part. Take an engine with low miles on it, and low wear. The crank and cam are still in good shape, with tight bearing clearances. 5 or 0w30 would be ideal. The oil would pump up pretty quick, and provide the thin layer the rotating part rides on.

Click to expand...

I agree with that, but a 5 or 10 weight in upstate new york, you are probably colder than I am. my mom lives in Lake Placid and it gets cold as hell there and it makes me want to come back home to Alask. the real problem with oiling on these things is the valve train evidenced by the way they tick like mad.

hot 30w oil is thinner than cold 10w oil. I see you are using a 10w40 which makes sense at high running temps but will be too thick when you start in the morning. if your clearances are really so messed up that you need a 40 weight, you should get mobil1 0w40

straight 30 weight is no thinner or thicker than a 0w30, 5w30, 10w30 at full operating temp. thats what the 30 stands for.

0w30 is going to pour well in the cold and be the proper thickness at running temp
5w30 is going to pour slower in the cold and be the proper thickness at running temp
10w30 is going to pour slowly in the cold and be the proper thickness at running temp
30w is going to be molasses in the cold and be the proper thickness at running temp

those oils are no thinner than the rest at running temp. they are only thinner when cold.

the higher the first number the harder it is going to be to get oil through the tiny oil passages up to the valvetrain. its going to be like blowing a milkshake through a straw. the 4.0 v6 was redesigned to address that fact. Its common knowledge that most wear occurs at startup, so Id rather have proper oiling after all the oil has drained down overnight.

but if you want to have bad oiling at startup and adequate oiling when running, thats cool with me. I dont want to get in the way of your happiness and success.

Wow, no one here seems to understand multigrades.

The 10W or 0W or whatever tells you the viscosity at 0 deg C.

The other number (30 or 40 were mentioned) tells you the viscosity at 100 deg C.

This means 0W-30 is THE SAME at operating temperature (pretty dang close to 100 deg C) as 10W-30. 10W-40 is not.

The "W" is for cold starts with no block heater. Period.

So, no, you aren't going to tear the heck out of your engine by using 0W-30 unless you do something mind-numbingly stupid and remove the thermostat. While 10W-30 is fine for cold starts on these vehicles all the way down to 0 deg F, 0W-30 ought to work fine in the winter almost anywhere north of Jacksonville.

thats what I just said