E-85 Gasoline

[Twisted_Steel]

Hey Guys,

I just read an article about E85 gas and good/bad they found with price and performance. My question is this... Does E85 go by the same octane rating as gasoline? The highest octane rating for pump gas here is 94. E85 has an octane rating of 103. The article stated that they got better mileage on pump gas using the same vehicle, distance and route. So much for the "save the environment" claim.

Interesting reading here... http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/e85-vs-gasoline-comparison-test.html

 

[adsm08]

Gallon for gallon burning ethanol is much more emissions friendly than straight gas. The problem is that it produces a lot of carbon pollution in the process to make it and you have to burn twice as much of it to make the same energy. The production and increased usage per mile kill the carbon savings from using it as a fuel, but the greenies wont' tell you that part, gotta stop using petroleum, it's bad for the environment, ethanol is natural.


Dumbasses.

 

[doorgunner]

adxm.....dsm....adsm.....there-i halfway got it.....

thanks for the truth on green gas.....

now i'm more disgusted than ever....

don't even feel like capping my i-sss.....

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

adsm nailed it.

Truth is, ethanol is a waste. It works in Brazil because sugarcane makes a better grade of ethanol and a lot more of it per pound than corn ethanol.

But here? Yea....

I'll tell ya'll a little story....

When I got my 2000 Ranger, it had the Flex-Fuel 3.0L in it and I was told that it will run just as well on E-85 as regular gas, but since regular gas was available and E-85 wasn't, I stuck with regular gas. I also kept track of mileage and kept all of my gas receipts.

After "breaking in" the engine and fuel economy settled down, I was getting ~19 mpg around town and ~26 mpg on the highway with ~100 lbs in the bed and an aluminum cap. It stayed pretty consistent and didn't seem to matter much where I got gas.

After a few years of that, I started running a soft tonneau cover instead of the cap. Fuel economy was ~21 mpg around town and ~28/29 mpg on the highway (even hit 31 mpg once).

Then they started adding ethanol to the regular gas (up to 10%). I could tell when I filled up at a station that had ethanol in the gas - my fuel economy dropped... and it wouldn't run as well - not terribly, but not as well. Fuel economy plummeted - ~17 mpg around town and ~22 mpg highway. I did a full tune-up, dumped some fuel injector cleaner in the tank, changed the fuel filter, switched to synthetic 5w-30 oil and changed the o2 sensors. Fuel economy stayed the same.

Now, the dirty little secret is that they are allowed to put up to 15% ethanol in the gas and they don't have to tell you... yet.

Plus we get to pay through the nose for fuel anymore. And it's not possible to get gas without ethanol in it locally (for me anyway).

Oh, and did I mention that Ethanol in gas has a tendency to separate from the gas? And it absorbs moisture which degrades it's performance? And this sort of thing will make your 87 octane "gas" you bought perform more like 83 octane gas?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Oh, and did I mention that Ethanol in gas has a tendency to separate from the gas? And it absorbs moisture which degrades it's performance? And this sort of thing will make your 87 octane "gas" you bought perform more like 83 octane gas?

Until you get down to the ethonal...

I have to drain the carb bowl every time I want to run one of my tractors... even back when it was new and 6.75:1 compression it probably wouldn't care for it.

It also wreaks havoc on two stroke engines, when the gas and ethonal seperates... and the oil goes with the gas. So then your poor little weed hacker is trying to run on STRAIGHT alcohol... which it will for awhile.

 

[straycat]

Ethanol is crap for us boat owners. It is horrible for boat motors and it causes all vehicals to loose gas milage. Everybody I know this that has a car (new or old) has said that they notice they get less gas milage with this crap ethanol.....corn phuk farmers are the ones making the money off of this. After ethanol become mandatory the corn phuk farmers have been making a lot more money....meat prices have gone up since this as well since the farmers who raise animals for food have to pay more for corn!!!

 

[country0001]

As a fuel inspector for the state, I run into these questions all the time. E85 does seem like a waste of money, it is at least 70% ethanol and not that much cheaper. If it were priced like CNG, I'd be interested.

E15 has been approved by the EPA, however, the states still have a say so.

In Oklahoma, the percentage has to be labeled. Our stickers read " contains up to 10% ethanol"

I have a Zeltex machine that checks octane ratings and ethanol content. Most are around 6-7% ethanol.

They are bringing sub grades of gasoline in, because the ethanol raises the octane rating. 85 oct with ethanol will boost it to 87.

Anytime gasoline sits, with or without ethanol, it will seperate. Moral is, don't let gas sit in your tanks. Every state has some sort of labeling law. Look at the dispenser before you pump. I see lawn crews using ethanol in their equipment daily.

Ford made their vehicles capable of running ot as far back as 89. Its in my B2 owners manual. there have been studies done and they can notice no big difference in the mileage. why? Because you can never duplicate the driving conditions.

The biggest complaint I hear is, I can tell an immediate difference in performance. Of course you can, the alcohol cleaned your tank and has clogged your filter up.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Ethanol is crap for us boat owners. It is horrible for boat motors and it causes all vehicals to loose gas milage. Everybody I know this that has a car (new or old) has said that they notice they get less gas milage with this crap ethanol.....corn phuk farmers are the ones making the money off of this. After ethanol become mandatory the corn phuk farmers have been making a lot more money....meat prices have gone up since this as well since the farmers who raise animals for food have to pay more for corn!!!

Blame the govt for making the monster, not the guys along for the ride.

They are just happy to no longer be paid 1960's prices for their grain...

Anytime gasoline sits, with or without ethanol, it will seperate. Moral is, don't let gas sit in your tanks. Every state has some sort of labeling law. Look at the dispenser before you pump. I see lawn crews using ethanol in their equipment daily.

I also wonder how many homeowners run tanks and tanks of gas through their equiment every day, day after day. It is never going to happen. Half a tank per week is doing good... a 1 gallon can could last all summer pretty easy.

Never used to have to deal with this before, they preach and preach at small engine schools to avoid ethonal at all costs, even to put some in your vehicle first in case the guy at the pump before you had gotten E10 and left half a gallon in the pump/hose... which they have spot checked can be up to E30 at the pump. That means your little one gallon gas can could actually be E15 (above the manf. max) no matter what you put in it. And if it isn't mixed right even the gas side of it is way below the minimum octane rating and that can cause major engine damage as well.

 

[Hahnsb2]

The article stated that they got better mileage on pump gas using the same vehicle, distance and route.

Bullshit.

On average you use like 30% more fuel with E85.

There's only one thing E85 is good for and that's boosted motors (because of the octane rating).

 

[country0001]

Never used to have to deal with this before, they preach and preach at small engine schools to avoid ethonal at all costs, even to put some in your vehicle first in case the guy at the pump before you had gotten E10 and left half a gallon in the pump/hose... which they have spot checked can be up to E30 at the pump. That means your little one gallon gas can could actually be E15 (above the manf. max) no matter what you put in it. And if it isn't mixed right even the gas side of it is way below the minimum octane rating and that can cause major engine damage as well.

False- there is only a quart maximum left in the hose.

That is not enough to change the rating that much.

Gas is the last place the store wants to screw you. They make more money off that buck fifty fountain drink that cost them a dime to make. Gas is the draw.

This is why every state has a weights and measures type division to check this out. Every dispenser in OK has a sticker on it saying that it has been inspected and approved. Check your dispenser next time. If you have a complaint, call it in. The state inspector will be happy to go out and check it.

There are too many so called "experts " out there blaming gas for mechanical problems when its not the gas's fault. Lots of times it failure to do proper maintenance on a vehicle.

Ethanol has been around in Iowa for 20 plus years. Not many complaints there.

 

[adsm08]

Oh, and did I mention that Ethanol in gas has a tendency to separate from the gas? And it absorbs moisture which degrades it's performance? And this sort of thing will make your 87 octane "gas" you bought perform more like 83 octane gas?

Pff, that more than just a tendancy, that's the freaking test for ethanol content.

In the field if we have a running issue and no fuel analyzer we are suppose to put a measure sample of fuel in water, shake it and let it sit for 5 mintues, see how much sperates out. Then we can calculate the ethanol content.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Bullshit.

On average you use like 30% more fuel with E85.

There's only one thing E85 is good for and that's boosted motors (because of the octane rating).

I always wondered how it would compare if you built an engine specifically for ethonal rather than a "flex-fuel" that is hobbled by having to be mainly built for regular gas and yet also run on ethonal.

Mainly up the compression.

 

[country0001]

Pff, that more than just a tendancy, that's the freaking test for ethanol content.

In the field if we have a running issue and no fuel analyzer we are suppose to put a measure sample of fuel in water, shake it and let it sit for 5 mintues, see how much sperates out. Then we can calculate the ethanol content.

Ethanol bonds to water. The field kit, is made by Briggs and stratton. Cost about 10 bucks. Its pretty accurate too.

That is one of the good things about ethanol. It removes water. It is also a cleaner. No need for additives if you burn it.

I still burn regular unleaded. But, no matter what type of gas you use, stay with it. I think the switching back and forth, causes the problems.The computer is constantly adjusting for the different fuel blend.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

False- there is only a quart maximum left in the hose.

That is not enough to change the rating that much.

Gas is the last place the store wants to screw you. They make more money off that buck fifty fountain drink that cost them a dime to make. Gas is the draw.

This is why every state has a weights and measures type division to check this out. Every dispenser in OK has a sticker on it saying that it has been inspected and approved. Check your dispenser next time. If you have a complaint, call it in. The state inspector will be happy to go out and check it.

There are too many so called "experts " out there blaming gas for mechanical problems when its not the gas's fault. Lots of times it failure to do proper maintenance on a vehicle.

Ethanol has been around in Iowa for 20 plus years. Not many complaints there.

The station doesn't mix the gas.

Why do I drain alcohol out of things even when I buy "straight" gas? It is not marked as E10 but yet it smells like it. Any station in town I pick, and yes they have all been inspected per the sticker.

You must not come around to Iowa much, there are many complaints to be had. Generally it works fine as long as you use whatever you put it in a lot (like a daily driven car), if not it is crap IMO. We see a ton of problems with it here at work as well in older tractors (the newer ones are all diesel) and lawn equipment.

We sell small lawn equipment (chainsaws, trimmers...) and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they are a tad proactive on discouraging ethonal use... when the guy drags the burned up thing back in when it is a couple weeks old it is a tough sell to blame the gas (or lack thereof) The manual recomends 89 octane minimum (we push premium), which shucky darn is what E10 is, so people buy that because it is also the cheapest. It seperates and the gas part is far lower than 89 and overoiled (which can plug the spark arrestor), the alcohol part is far higher than that, has no oil and is in the bottom of the tank where the pickup hose usually flops to. Add 7000 rpm with no oil and see what happens. We also say that if you run ethonal make sure the shake the holy crap out of it before you use it to try to mix it a little, which probably doesn't happen much because when push comes to shove nobody cares about this stuff until it doesn't work.

Ethanol bonds to water. The field kit, is made by Briggs and stratton. Cost about 10 bucks. Its pretty accurate too.

That is one of the good things about ethanol. It removes water. It is also a cleaner. No need for additives if you burn it.

Except for something like heat, because engines do not run on water. Never really had a problem with that though, just the fact that a drop of water will seperate out quite a bit of the alcohol.

 

[country0001]

Thats where my lack of maintenance comment comes in. People don't care until it breaks, then they yell and scream.