Full-body bilstein 5100 front shocks for a 2wd Edge

[05MountainGoat]

To preface, I am posting this thread here because the 2wd Edge has the frame and suspension of a 4wd ranger from its era.

After having a bilstein 4600 front shock snap at the upper weld (shock body to CV-Clearance-Stick-Thingy,) I have been looking into full body shocks for my 2wd Edge.

Rancho offers a shock for torsion cranked rangers, with a 19.25in extended length and a 5.28in stroke.

Compare this to the b6 4600 with an extended length of 17.92in and a 4.2in stroke.

These are the numbers we're working with. Extended length is the important figure as it determines when my suspension will reach upper ball joint bind, followed by upper arm to frame contact (only if the shock breaks at a weld as I have seen first hand). Shock stroke is important because it gives us a ballpark estimate of gained suspension travel; I don't care for unnecessary uptravel potential. I know the bumpstops will prevent the suspension from reaching the maximum compressed length of a full body shock, which is a good thing.

In theory, so long as a shocks extended length does not exceed that of the Rancho's, and I don't do something ignorant such as adjust my torsion bars out of their nicely aligned, 1.5 inch torsion twisted state, it should only enhance ride quality by offering a modest increase to suspension travel. Getting it properly aligned with the adjustable camber bolts was expensive enough that I don't wanna touch my T-bars without necessity.

The candidate I have chosen for a full length front shock is the Bilstein 5100, part number 24-185493, for lifted TIB rangers. Extended length is 18.98 inches, with a stroke of 6.81 inches. I will be installing the bar pins myself.

The goal of using this shock instead of the b6 4600 or rancho shock spec'd for my truck is optimization. The 4×4 shocks are inherently weak at the welds, where the rod of CV-boot-rippage-avoidance was shoehorned into a crowded space on 4×4 vehicles. The short shock body has a lower volume of fluid, which reduces the volume available for cooling under heavy use- I am thinking long highway drives in 45 Celsius. The abysmal 4.2 inch stroke of the bilstein b6 4600 is pathetic, although an upgrade over parts store spec 4x4 ranger shocks which are about an inch and a half shorter, off the top of my head. I don't want to crank my torsion bars more, I want a modest increase in suspension travel, and a more robust front shock. This is about optimization

My truck's suspension is in better shape than the day it was made. The front has moog problem solver sway bar links w/ polyurethane sway bar bushings, new wheel bearings, Powerstop drilled/slotted rotors & Powdercoated calipers, a new production rack and pinion, new tie rods inner and outer, moog problem solver upper control arms, and greasable lower ball joints. The rear has lift shackles and new U-joints on the driveshaft

If somebody wants to talk me out of doing this, now is your time to shine. I'm gonna be grabbing a thicker front sway bar off of a level 2 fx4 in a local yard before pulling the trigger on these front shocks. I'll report back to this thread sometime this summer once I've got the shocks on

If somebody has recommendations for new bump stops, your input would also be appreciated.

 

[05MountainGoat]

Note the image is from a year ago, before my front end received its full makeover

 

[Uncle Gump]

Sounds like you have a decent plan and thought it out.

The only issue I seen is that it doesn't matter what shock you use... none of them will increase wheel travel. That is determined by hard stops. So unless you alter the stops... wheel travel remains unchanged.

 

[JoshT]

After having a bilstein 4600 front shock snap at the upper weld (shock body to CV-Clearance-Stick-Thingy,) I have been looking into full body shocks for my 2wd Edge.

Not going to say it has never happened, but this is the first time I've heard of one breaking there. What were you doing to break it?

I don't know that that stem is for CV clearance as much as penny pinching. As you said a "full body" shock exceeds the available travel of the stock suspension. So rather than spending extra money developing a "full body" shock, they welded an extension onto a shorter shock that fit the needed specifications.

These are the numbers we're working with. Extended length is the important figure as it determines when my suspension will reach upper ball joint bind, followed by upper arm to frame contact (only if the shock breaks at a weld as I have seen first hand).

I think you have that backwards. It's your ball joint travel range that will determine your extended and compressed lengths. Using a longer shock isn't going to increase wheel travel beyond what the balljoint can handle. Generally the shock is shorter than maximum extended to keep the balljoint from hitting it's limit and excessively wearing. While having a shock capable of additional travel may help the life of the shock, you don't want to let the ball joint reach bind either. If going to a longer shock don;t rely on the it or the ball joint for suspension stock, instead you need to add in a limiting strap.

My truck's suspension is in better shape than the day it was made. The front has moog problem solver sway bar links w/ polyurethane sway bar bushings, new wheel bearings, Powerstop drilled/slotted rotors & Powdercoated calipers, a new production rack and pinion, new tie rods inner and outer, moog problem solver upper control arms, and greasable lower ball joints. The rear has lift shackles and new U-joints on the driveshaft

I wouldn't bank on that either. You may have replaced everything with MOOG, but Moog isn't what it used to be. Its arguable if it is even up to stock standards of 20 years ago.

Polyurethane bushings aren't better than new stock rubber, they are different than new stock rubber. They have different applications and purpose than the stock bushing. It's a trade-off and up to you whether or not it is worth it, but not better than new stock.

Powerstop is no different/better than most other brands out there, come off the same chinese manufacturing line and made out of the same metals. A drilled/slotted rotor is hardly better than a plain rotor unless you like riding brakes and glazing pads. Their calipers are the same as all other reman/aftermarket calipers, they just dress them up a bit with the powder coat.

Same stuff could be said about most of the other components rattled off. I'd be hard pressed to agree with better than new, but maybe as good as new.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but tone it back a bit and you'll likely get more people engage.

If somebody wants to talk me out of doing this, now is your time to shine. I'm gonna be grabbing a thicker front sway bar off of a level 2 fx4 in a local yard before pulling the trigger on these front shocks. I'll report back to this thread sometime this summer once I've got the shocks on

Why would we want to? It's your truck, just share what you figure out for other readers.

With you doing all of this work, I'd only throw out one thing for you to consider. Go coilovers and ditch the torsion bars. If you are playing hard enough to break a shock like that (unless it was a factory defect) then you would probably benefit from a coilover conversion.

Check out the 96-01 Explorers for torsion bars too, they will bolt right in. I'm not sure what the FX4 LII came with, but the Explorer bar is likely to be as big or bigger and more readily available. Some were hollow and not as strong, but I know there are posts on here somewhere that cover what years had that.

If somebody has recommendations for new bump stops, your input would also be appreciated.

Stock? You aren't 4wd, so biggest reason for bump stops are to keep from bottoming out the shock and the lower control arm from smacking the frame. You said above that you don;t care for unnecessary uptravel potential. The stock bumpstops are already about at the limit of necessary uptravel. People that lower Edges and 2wd Explorers (same suspension) often cut the stock bumpstock in half or use a universal pancake bumpstock.

 

[05MountainGoat]

Not going to say it has never happened, but this is the first time I've heard of one breaking there. What were you doing to break it?

I don't know that that stem is for CV clearance as much as penny pinching. As you said a "full body" shock exceeds the available travel of the stock suspension. So rather than spending extra money developing a "full body" shock, they welded an extension onto a shorter shock that fit the needed specifications.



I think you have that backwards. It's your ball joint travel range that will determine your extended and compressed lengths. Using a longer shock isn't going to increase wheel travel beyond what the balljoint can handle. Generally the shock is shorter than maximum extended to keep the balljoint from hitting it's limit and excessively wearing. While having a shock capable of additional travel may help the life of the shock, you don't want to let the ball joint reach bind either. If going to a longer shock don;t rely on the it or the ball joint for suspension stock, instead you need to add in a limiting strap.



I wouldn't bank on that either. You may have replaced everything with MOOG, but Moog isn't what it used to be. Its arguable if it is even up to stock standards of 20 years ago.

Polyurethane bushings aren't better than new stock rubber, they are different than new stock rubber. They have different applications and purpose than the stock bushing. It's a trade-off and up to you whether or not it is worth it, but not better than new stock.

Powerstop is no different/better than most other brands out there, come off the same chinese manufacturing line and made out of the same metals. A drilled/slotted rotor is hardly better than a plain rotor unless you like riding brakes and glazing pads. Their calipers are the same as all other reman/aftermarket calipers, they just dress them up a bit with the powder coat.

Same stuff could be said about most of the other components rattled off. I'd be hard pressed to agree with better than new, but maybe as good as new.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but tone it back a bit and you'll likely get more people engage.



Why would we want to? It's your truck, just share what you figure out for other readers.

With you doing all of this work, I'd only throw out one thing for you to consider. Go coilovers and ditch the torsion bars. If you are playing hard enough to break a shock like that (unless it was a factory defect) then you would probably benefit from a coilover conversion.

Check out the 96-01 Explorers for torsion bars too, they will bolt right in. I'm not sure what the FX4 LII came with, but the Explorer bar is likely to be as big or bigger and more readily available. Some were hollow and not as strong, but I know there are posts on here somewhere that cover what years had that.




Stock? You aren't 4wd, so biggest reason for bump stops are to keep from bottoming out the shock and the lower control arm from smacking the frame. You said above that you don;t care for unnecessary uptravel potential. The stock bumpstops are already about at the limit of necessary uptravel. People that lower Edges and 2wd Explorers (same suspension) often cut the stock bumpstock in half or use a universal pancake bumpstock.

Truck skipped sideways on a 60 degree grade FSR over a series of probably 6 dozen boulders almost buried under an FSR...100 meters off the highway. They'd just recently graded it to the point it was like swimming through gravel... those boulders under the road are the size of furniture with just 4-6 inches poking out of the bare surface without fresh grade or dry packed dirt. I drive the missus to her job at km7, it's seasonal. Truck hasn't skipped sideways on the road since I replaced the U-joints and added extended shackles, but I feel the front shocks still deserve to be optimized.

I appreciate your criticism of Moog, but I find their CK control arm/uniball joint combo outlived a twice daily 140km round trip out there all last summer, occasionally having to race down that road at 50 or 60... kph. No doubt Moog has gotten worse, but I think that perception has a lot to do with people expecting performance from their made in China "value product line"
Powerstop have good drilled/slotted rotors, I agree with you on their calipers though.

Thanks for the input about modifying my bumpstops, but that's not for me at the moment. I have 265/75/15 tires and don't want to make any permanent modifications to my frame for up travel. I might want to go up a size in tire or rim one day, we'll see. I see nothing wrong with my factory bumpstops for the time being.

I was under the impression that Uniballs for upper and lower would add suspension travel with the correct shock absorber. With a Rancho at full extension, I'd imagine it could place a factory upper balljoint into a bind. Point taken, I will measure for limit straps once I have the front end together.

This wasn't meant to come off as pretentious or rude, I just needed to throw this idea around the ranger community. I felt it important somebody smarter or more experienced than me called me out on something stupid prior to me making this move. Thanks for your time

 

[05MountainGoat]

Sounds like you have a decent plan and thought it out.

The only issue I seen is that it doesn't matter what shock you use... none of them will increase wheel travel. That is determined by hard stops. So unless you alter the stops... wheel travel remains unchanged.

I figured shocks off, sway bar on, there's about 2.5 inches of droop before the upper balljoint binds, 2.5 inches more than with the shocks on. Balljoint bind happens prior to frame on upper arm contact on both sides of my truck- perhaps at the same time, if measuring with the swaybar off as well as the shocks would have a serious impact on measurements. By using a shock that's an inch longer extended, we can make use of this spare suspension downtravel, which will increase wheel travel because the hard stop of the control arm hitting the frame and the upper uniball balljoint binding have not been reached with a 1 inch longer shock. In theory, this will increase wheel downtravel modestly without a 1/3rd of an inch less of stress on the upper balljoint than those Ranchos would offer

I know Rancho would not offer their shock with a longer extended length if it caused the suspension of a Ranger to hit its hard stop in downtravel, so I feel comfortable running a shock that gives me an extra inch of extended length, but less than what their product has. This must mean it increases suspension and wheel downtravel, correct? I see no reason I wouldn't get similar results using the shock I intend to use, but I'd appreciate being corrected if I'm wrong.

In practice, I'll still be running limit straps. Thanks for your time

 

[JoshT]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. You are saying moog control arms and joints, then saying uniball. Which do you have, they are different products?

Moog's joints are simply replacement joints offering the same range of motion as a stock joint. Some aftermarket companies do offer uniball joints that offer more range for Rangers, but usually that option includes a whole custom arm.

I know it's taking me a bit to wrap my head around other parts of your reply. I had to read two or three times before realizing that FSR meant forest service road. Trying to do the mental conversion from km to mile still throws me off. 140 km is about 85 miles. 50-60 kph is around 35 MPH. I have no idea what KM7 is referring to or what happens there, but sounds fairly remote for that drive.

If you're having to race down roads like that in a regular basis, you really might want to look into a coil over conversion. I can only imagine how much better the ride and handling would be on roads like that. I'd probably also consider a lift to allow for more suspension travel, especially if you are considering larger tires as well.

Also, if upgrading the front sway bar, don't ignore the rear. Best to keep things balanced.

 

[05MountainGoat]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. You are saying moog control arms and joints, then saying uniball. Which do you have, they are different products?

Moog's joints are simply replacement joints offering the same range of motion as a stock joint. Some aftermarket companies do offer uniball joints that offer more range for Rangers, but usually that option includes a whole custom arm.

I know it's taking me a bit to wrap my head around other parts of your reply. I had to read two or three times before realizing that FSR meant forest service road. Trying to do the mental conversion from km to mile still throws me off. 140 km is about 85 miles. 50-60 kph is around 35 MPH. I have no idea what KM7 is referring to or what happens there, but sounds fairly remote for that drive.

If you're having to race down roads like that in a regular basis, you really might want to look into a coil over conversion. I can only imagine how much better the ride and handling would be on roads like that. I'd probably also consider a lift to allow for more suspension travel, especially if you are considering larger tires as well.

Also, if upgrading the front sway bar, don't ignore the rear. Best to keep things balanced.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a selling point of the moog CK/problem solver, made in USA upper control arm, is a uniball ball joint with more articulation and durability than the factory ball joints. It's a moot point really, I don't have a factory arm w factory ball joints to compare articulation with anymore.

The drive is almost all highway through mountains. 7 kilometer of forest service road.
Km 7 is kilometer 7 or mile marker 7. Sorry for any confusion, we use metric in Canada but imperial measurements are all that matter here when you talk about a trucks suspension... funny how that works.

"Have to" race down them is a matter of choice, typically. Good habits tend to erase those "Have-to's" but I still end up "racing" up and down mountain washboards in my truck at about 35mph more than I'd like to. Bad traffic isn't exactly a good enough reason to do a coilover conversion, but when leaving well ahead of schedule doesn't always cut it, it starts to sound more attractive. Fingers crossed about getting more out of my stock suspension.

 

[JoshT]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a selling point of the moog CK/problem solver, made in USA upper control arm, is a uniball ball joint with more articulation and durability than the factory ball joints. It's a moot point really, I don't have a factory arm w factory ball joints to compare articulation with anymore.

The drive is almost all highway through mountains. 7 kilometer of forest service road.
Km 7 is kilometer 7 or mile marker 7. Sorry for any confusion, we use metric in Canada but imperial measurements are all that matter here when you talk about a trucks suspension... funny how that works.

"Have to" race down them is a matter of choice, typically. Good habits tend to erase those "Have-to's" but I still end up "racing" up and down mountain washboards in my truck at about 35mph more than I'd like to. Bad traffic isn't exactly a good enough reason to do a coilover conversion, but when leaving well ahead of schedule doesn't always cut it, it starts to sound more attractive. Fingers crossed about getting more out of my stock suspension.

I haven't see that in any of the Moog marketing materials. As I understand it the problem solver line, as it relates to ball joints for these trucks, is slightly oversized on outside diameter wher it goes into the control arm. Meant for trucks that have arms with worn out ball joint cups. They also typically have greasable joints instead of sealed.

What is a Moog Problem Solver?

Moog Problem Solver Ball Joints are designed to fix flaws and oversights in the stock ball joints on some vehicles, giving you a better, longer lasting ball joint compared to original replacements or other aftermarket alternatives.

www.moog-suspension-parts.com

Moog Control Arms: CK, K, or RK? | Suspension.com

What is the Difference Between Moog R Series and CK Control Arms? R Series is a value-driven replacement part while the CK Series incorporates Moog's premium Problem Solver components for a better than OE upgrade.

www.suspension.com

Got it. Kilometer 7 marker makes sense. We do have mile markers, but in my part of the country we rarely use them for direction purposes. I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone around here use it unless they were broke down or stuck in traffic on the interstate.

Bad traffic is no reason to do a coilover conversion. Having fun on those FS roads is an excellent reason to do a coilover conversion. Only 7 km of it doesn't seem like enough to justify the expense though, does it.

 

[superj]

i wonder what km7 was also but now that you explained it, we use mile markers here in south texas when describing places or where to turn.

i am going to do that coil over conversion from ricksrangerz for my edge. i don't particularly have a problem with the torsion bar set up but i want the truck lower than it is and i want it to be able to be autocrossed, which torsion bars don't seem to be a good suspension set up for that type of driving

 

[Uncle Gump]

I think you and I are just a little caught up in semantics.

While you say "increase wheel travel" with a long travel shock... I still think that isn't possible without altering the hard stops.

Really what you're doing is "optimizing" the existing wheel travel. Which is good... there isn't much travel to begin with these trucks.

It's also funny to me how much variation there is truck to truck... or even side to side. On my truck... no front shocks... both sides sitting on the hard down stop (upper control arm on frame)... the driver side shock is perfect length. The passenger side shock is about 1/4 inch short.

I'm going back in this year to upgrade to the big torsion bars and plan to address the shock issue then. My Rough Country lift keys were suppose to come with two spacers that go on the shock upper stem before you install the lower washer and bushing. But they only came with one. I'll probably contact them and buy a set or just make some to create a bit of compression of the shock at full drop.

 

[JoshT]

I'm going back in this year to upgrade to the big torsion bars and plan to address the shock issue then. My Rough Country lift keys were suppose to come with two spacers that go on the shock upper stem before you install the lower washer and bushing. But they only came with one. I'll probably contact them and buy a set or just make some to create a bit of compression of the shock at full drop.

I only did a bar twist on mine back when and it already has the big bars, so I don't know how much lift the those keys give. May not have been necessary but I use a large nut in the same location as you are talking about putting those spacers. Been like that for a long time with no problems.