gt40p header question

[oddball101]

I realize our options with the gt40p headers are rather limited, however I've just developed a new contact that wants to help me build a custom set of headers for material cost only. Its amazing what a few beers with ranndom people can do. So anyhow, getting complete access to his fab shop, I was thinking about purchasing a set of inexpennsive headers that people would love to use but cannot due to minor clearance issues. From there I'd just be reworking them to fit my gt40p / 4r70w combo.

So I'm looking for suggestions on which would be good to go..

Try Y's
Mustang Shorties
Hookers
..?

Are there a set of relatively inexpensive headers out there that would awesome to use but barely don't work?

What would you guys like to see adapted?

Hell, I suppose I could just start playing with paper mache and toilet paper rolls.. lol, but seriously.. I could, I just don't want to take forever getting my swap done. I do know that if I found a working solution, I'd be sharing here to help.

**And, his shop could use the extra influx of customers should we come up with something.. food for thought there.

On a side note, what would be the better materials to use for the headers? I've heard stainless isn't so good to use but I really don't know. What would be good and cost effective?

 

[bobbywalter]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hok-6133hkr/media/images


those

 

[Mac]

First I would have to ask what years you interested in doing? The '98+' have more problems than the earlier ones, that's why selection is so limited. One guy with a late model used Pypes but had to raise the motor a couple inches to clear the suspension and then also had to use a couple of u-joints to clear the stearing shaft. Easier than using paper mache and toilet paper rolls would be using that metal sprial tubing/flexible metal tubing and a flange at the maniflod. I have quite a collection of photos of different attempts.
Dave

 

[oddball101]

bobbywalter- Those headers will be the design I go for then. they are simple and straight forward. I will not purchase them, but I can get the proper flange and recreate something like them. I just need tpo figure out the jargon dimensions now for tubing size, collectors, primaries and that sor tof stuff.

Mac- "metal sprial tubing/flexible metal tubing and a flange at the maniflod".. Okay, that does sound better, I'll just have to find it.

Anyone able to suggest a metal type and thinkness that I should be going for?

 

[bobbywalter]

depends on actual material but i would be most comfortable with 3/8 for a flange at the head.

i would rather have slip fit then a flat flange, and the ball flange does lose power but in a truck that gets driven i would rather have a ball-flange then any other type of coupler from header on back.

from my experience, its the best all around setup especially in mud and rough situations where the exaust gets beat up from impact.

if you are willing to pay shipping back to me, i am willing to pay to ship you a set of oem 351 headers to base off of, the way the drivers side is setup particularly is the key to using these with a 302 swap. with one in your hand you can tighten it up even more which will make a 351 fitment real easy.

 

[bobbywalter]

since the mid 90's i have had many types of engines and exaust system in my ttb gen 1 chassis. these headers fit 351 and 302 in my chassis, but i have to shim a bit one way or another depending on what is being used.

the the excessive clearing on the passenger side was due to mid and full length header selections, which were flat gasket and ...well theres a reason i hate flat gasket junk.

current advanced adapter headers do work a bit better then the ones i tried way back then...

i would rather mod the frame to fit the type of shorty i linked to all said and done.

drivers side frame mods....

with this type of layout the aerostar type linkage works out well.

passenger side is beefed from original mid and full header selection clearancing....i really liked the idea of better torque from "real" headers but it proved a waste of time and money under 350 hp builds. shorties are fine with me.

dont know if that helps or hurts but its what i got.

you can see how these are similar.

 

[oddball101]

Bobbywalter, I saw the steering shaft from the aerostar, but what motor and vehicle are we seeing in your other pictures?

Okay, well before shipping anything I am still going to have to get a better handle. We can talk further via PM for personal contact info. I am still needing to know what type of steal to use for the tubes and at what thickness. I will be getting the raw materials wholesale and working from there.

You weren't kidding about the driver side being tight.. What about the 4.6 guys and how they installed a steering setup from a 96 crown vic or something like that.. Anybody know how much more room that would donate to the cause here, or is it too much trouble??

 

[bobbywalter]

313 402 5966 is the best way to contact me....often takes a few times as i am out of cell range allot so leave a message.

that is all of my personal truck. its totally different now as i have a 6.5 diesel in there, and like with big blocks went to over the rail steering gear.

 

[oddball101]

Hm, you've given me something more to think about as far as steering changes. I'll have to look more into that now just to satisfy some curiosities.

 

[straycat]

Sometime you just got to shop around. I bought a set of Doug Thorley Headers thy-220 for my buddy’s daughters 2004 4.0 Ranger for her birthday gift last month. I bought them new on Amazon for around $161.46 with free shipping. That was a great deal. I know friends who bought JBA, and Headman’s for around $200 with shipping. Now, these are Rangers that have the factory motors in them of course. But, if you are going to build your own there is so much to know about….
You need to understand primary tubes...equal lengths for example (or too small of a primary tube restricts airflow, too large of a primary tube causes a drop in exhaust gas velocity, and like wise a decrease in performance). Don’t forget that if you compromise on the tube diameter, you need to try to get the best performance possible. Too short of tube length or too long of tube length causes issues as well. You could loose a lot of performance or burn up a motor (running too lean or way to rich. Sometimes…the longer the tube, the more possible torque at lower rpm. So much to learn.

 

[oddball101]

You have a good point. I wouldn't even know about these things to consider had you not even clued me in so I appreciate that. My approach was just to take something that almost works and rework it to fit. I suppose that "reworking" could definitely have a negative impact if one didn't abide by the principles you present.

I was actually thinking of something that looked like a log style turbo manifold, except where coming from the forward most cylinder it would just start 1 5/8's then get bigger rolling into the next cylinder, then bigger again and again to the last cylinder. I am picturing something like a cone effect leading into one large primary(?) that gets bottle necked to provide the resistance needed. I suppose knowing the (diameters) parameters for what resistance and what length is needed would allow for true functionality in design.

Is my thought process on this just ridiculous or does it sort of make sense?

For instance, the torque monster stuff has pretty big primaries, if I could just figure out the resistance they are providing per cylinder then what I was saying may actually be feasible ..I really hate math.. The more I talk the more of a "pipe-dream" this seems to become..

 

[straycat]

Well, another way to do it is called 'Tune To Fit'. Some people take a set of headers for the same motor and 're-bend' them to fit. That means to trim, cut and re-weld the headers to fit over suspension parts, motor parts....etc. Then once they get the headers in place and all looks like a great fit then can then clean and paint the headers (some people do this for a nice effect, ok?). Then they tune the vehicle around the headers...bigger or smaller jets or work on the injection system to get the vehicle to run correctly in nother words. This might be easier, but it does not always work....lol

 

[Mac]

I was actually thinking of something that looked like a log style turbo manifold, except where coming from the forward most cylinder it would just start 1 5/8's then get bigger rolling into the next cylinder, then bigger again and again to the last cylinder. I am picturing something like a cone effect leading into one large primary(?) that gets bottle necked to provide the resistance needed. I suppose knowing the (diameters) parameters for what resistance and what length is needed would allow for true functionality in design.

Is my thought process on this just ridiculous or does it sort of make sense?

For instance, the torque monster stuff has pretty big primaries, if I could just figure out the resistance they are providing per cylinder then what I was saying may actually be feasible ..I really hate math.. The more I talk the more of a "pipe-dream" this seems to become..

Straycat does have some very good points to consider. RPM and HP also come into play. Use to have a really good site for sizing headers but it's gone now. The TM's are only a 1 5/8" dia primary but close to equal length as possible. He did install a flow merging cone on the drivers side.

The TM's are only good for 350-380 hp per Bob but could be pushed further
Figuring the flow is way beyond me, figuring how much from each cylinder in the different order of firing. The stock cast iron Explorer headers do increase in size to the collector as you mentioned.

 

[oddball101]

And here I am trying to reinvent the wheel like a million others have tried cause I just got my 5.0 to swap lol. Thanks for the straight input guys. I'll just have to get the swap done before I get too overzealous.

 

[straycat]

Straycat does have some very good points to consider. RPM and HP also come into play. Use to have a really good site for sizing headers but it's gone now. The TM's are only a 1 5/8" dia primary but close to equal length as possible. He did install a flow merging cone on the drivers side.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/



Ahhhh..I looked real hard at that photo and I saw the future....it is gonna be so bright you gotta wear shades......lol


AHHHHHHHHHHHH The future is coming.........

well it is, ok??

:icon_rofl::icon_rofl: