Need headgasket failure help!

[Hagan]

I finished working on my gf's car this weekend because she over heated the living f%ck out of it and she wanted to "get home" so she kept driving it until it literally wouldn't run anymore. I'm extremely aggravated at this whole situation because she didn't even bother looking at the temperature gauge and now I feel like I want to scrap the car because I'm tired of working on it. We bought it a couple months ago with a rod knock so I swapped the engine for a low mileage junkyard one and spent a lot of my time and money on it just for her to trash it.

Anyway, there wasn't any coolant in the radiator when I towed the car home. At this point it wouldn't even start. It turned over like it had no compression. I took a compression test and it has 65, 35, 45, 80 psi in the cylinders 1-4. I didnt do a leak down test because I figured she blew the head gasket. I spent all day to pull the head gasket (it's an MLS one) and can't visually see anything wrong with it. I don't have any way to see if the head is warped/flat...if that is even that possible to cause a no compression scenario?

Any help or insight would be extremely helpful!

 

[RonD]

4cyl I assume, what model car and engine?

MLS won't show much.

Get the head pressure tested then surfaced if it tests OK, if it has overhead cam(s) I would check bearings or just replace them on spec.

You can use composite gasket instead of MLS, they often don't last past 60k with aluminum heads but seal better on older engines.

MLS(multi-layer steel) gaskets are used with aluminum heads and blocks because aluminum expands faster and more than cast iron when heated, so they would "rub" composite gaskets when engine was heated and cooled, so only good for about 60k miles.
MLS allows "sliding" instead of "rubbing" so lasts longer.

You can use MLS again, but will for sure need head surfaced and to check the block for flatness, they will not seal well if both surfaces are not within spec.

 

[Doofy]

Think I'd be trading in that girlfriend. No good reason to murder an engine like that.

 

[Hagan]

4cyl I assume, what model car and engine?

MLS won't show much.

Get the head pressure tested then surfaced if it tests OK, if it has overhead cam(s) I would check bearings or just replace them on spec.

You can use composite gasket instead of MLS, they often don't last past 60k with aluminum heads but seal better on older engines.

MLS(multi-layer steel) gaskets are used with aluminum heads and blocks because aluminum expands faster and more than cast iron when heated, so they would "rub" composite gaskets when engine was heated and cooled, so only good for about 60k miles.
MLS allows "sliding" instead of "rubbing" so lasts longer.

You can use MLS again, but will for sure need head surfaced and to check the block for flatness, they will not seal well if both surfaces are not within spec.

Sorry I thought I mentioned it. It's a 2003 Mazda Protégé 5 with an automatic transmission. The block is iron and head is aluminum. It's a 2.0 I4. My twin brother has the identical car with 250k miles on it but a 5spd. I still have the old block with the head on it. Sounded like a rod knock but have yet to confirm it.

Sounds like the best course of action is I need to have the head checked out by a machine shop then go from there. Worst case scenario I could use the other head I have.

Think I'd be trading in that girlfriend. No good reason to murder an engine like that.

Trust me...I seriously considered it.

Unfortunately, in the meantime she has been driving my truck. I've thought about trying to build an engine protection shutdown system. Basically when the temp gets too hot or not enough oil pressure it shuts down.

 

[Tedybear]

Sorry I thought I mentioned it. It's a 2003 Mazda Protégé 5 with an automatic transmission. The block is iron and head is aluminum. It's a 2.0 I4. My twin brother has the identical car with 250k miles on it but a 5spd. I still have the old block with the head on it. Sounded like a rod knock but have yet to confirm it.

Sounds like the best course of action is I need to have the head checked out by a machine shop then go from there. Worst case scenario I could use the other head I have.






Trust me...I seriously considered it.

Unfortunately, in the meantime she has been driving my truck. I've thought about trying to build an engine protection shutdown system. Basically when the temp gets too hot or not enough oil pressure it shuts down.

I would take both heads to a qualified machine shop (call around to repair shops and see who they recommend. This isn't a job you want to repeat over and over and over) Ask the machine shop to do a basic check for 'flatness'. And then a basic evaluation of both heads. Yes they will charge for doing it, but you want the best of the pair back in service.

Ron gave you solid advice. Pick high quality over cost. Use NEW head bolts and follow that torque down procedure to the last letter. I've seen head gaskets fail within minutes due to incorrect installation.

Worse case? Trash the engine and find another from a pick and pull yard or salvage yard again.

Harsh I know. But I'm a realist. That severe of an overheat can do a major number on the engine.

S-

 

[55trucker]

Anyway, there wasn't any coolant in the radiator when I towed the car home. At this point it wouldn't even start. It turned over like it had no compression. I took a compression test and it has 65, 35, 45, 80 psi in the cylinders 1-4. I didnt do a leak down test because I figured she blew the head gasket. I spent all day to pull the head gasket (it's an MLS one) and can't visually see anything wrong with it. I don't have any way to see if the head is warped/flat...if that is even that possible to cause a no compression scenario?

Any help or insight would be extremely helpful!

If the engine was severely overheated the piston rings more than likely have lost their tension, that's why you have little compression in each cylinder.

 

[black_demon69]

If the engine was severely overheated the piston rings more than likely have lost their tension, that's why you have little compression in each cylinder.

+2

 

[adsm08]

Yup, the rings are shot if she overheated it that bad.

Block and head are probably warped too. I saw one like that once, the lady was clueless and just kept driving. When we tried to fill the cooling system to find out where the coolant went the water just ran into the cylinders.

 

[Hagan]

I don't want to pretend it's better than it is. But what evidence would support the rings losing there tension? As much as I want to throw this engine in the garbage I would much rather salvage what I have if it's salvageable.

Surprisingly I didn't see scoring on the cylinder walls. I would rather do it right than twice. Because doing it wrong costs me more than doing it right the first time.

 

[Hagan]

Harsh I know. But I'm a realist. That severe of an overheat can do a major number on the engine.

S-

Thanks for giving it to me straight!

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I don't want to pretend it's better than it is. But what evidence would support the rings losing there tension? As much as I want to throw this engine in the garbage I would much rather salvage what I have if it's salvageable.

Surprisingly I didn't see scoring on the cylinder walls. I would rather do it right than twice. Because doing it wrong costs me more than doing it right the first time.

High heat will cause them to lose their temper (and not get angry)

It will also score the heck out of the bores and cause funny heat spots.

And it can do funny things to the oil and then cause lubrication problems too.

It ain't good.

 

[Hagan]

Probably just swap in another engine then?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Probably just swap in another engine then?

Probably.

No compression isn't a cheap or easy fix on a good day. The whole thing could be slagged.

Hang on to it, it could make for a interesting autopsy when you get done.

 

[Hagan]

Probably.

No compression isn't a cheap or easy fix on a good day. The whole thing could be slagged.

Hang on to it, it could make for a interesting autopsy when you get done.

I have the original one I've been meaning to pull apart to inspect the rod knock it has.

Maybe being stupid cheap could work out for me. Swap the other head on, put on a new head gasket, and see what happens. If it runs like shit it guess the bottom end is junk and I'm out a head gasket. And will still need a new engine. Worse case scenario I'm out some of my time.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I have the original one I've been meaning to pull apart to inspect the rod knock it has.

Maybe being stupid cheap could work out for me. Swap the other head on, put on a new head gasket, and see what happens. If it runs like shit it guess the bottom end is junk and I'm out a head gasket. And will still need a new engine. Worse case scenario I'm out some of my time.

If it hasn't good oil pressure at cranking speed and the birds look ok when you have the head off it might work. Kind of a big if on the bores if it has no compression though.