Need Help

[bagdranger]

I've got a 88 Bronco II that wont start. History is it was running before the trans was removed and no nothing. I found a wire that got pinched but its fixed. It burned a fusable link and I replaced it. Now when you try to start it it will hit then when you let off the key it will quit.

Ive got spart from the coil and I'm getting fuel pressure. The fuel pump in the tank has been replaced and so has the fuel filter. It does have the second fuel pump on the rail. I need to get this truck running and I'm at the end of my rope so to speak trying to figure this out.

 

[cavedweller]

My first thought was the starter solenoid,or the starter itself......From the way things were described

 

[RyanL]

From the description above I think he's trying to say that it's turning over.

Maybe the distributor got bumped or something and now the timing is way off. If you have an extra hand, maybe you could put a timing light on it while someone else turns it over. Don't forget to pull the timing spout.

 

[Earl43P]

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/EDiagrams/files/Diagrams_StartIgnition83to882_9.JPG

I'm suspecting the ignition switch itself or the wire from the Run position (coming out of Pin 8 of Ign switch) since it seems that the Start position wire (Pin 9 of Ign switch) appears to work.

That said, those ignition electrical switches have a habit of splitting open, so be sure to "look at it".

If you want to cut to the chase, run a temporary Bat+ wire straight to the R/LG wire at the coil. If it runs, bad ignition switch.

Be aware that when you do this, the key will not shut off the engine. That's why I called it a temporary wire (that could have a switch as part of that wire run), not that I ever did anything like this to a 64 Fairlane that my Dad kept hiding the keys for.....

 

[bagdranger]

Ill look at that tomorrow. Like I said its spinning over just not starting. And it seems like nothing works thats supposed to when the key is on. I had an issue on my 85 where it would randomly shut off and the switch itself was barely in the base. But i'll get to looking at it when I can.

 

[cavedweller]

My bad on the starter....How about the ignition or (here we go again ),the TFI ? I would have said the ignition coil ,but I read it a little more throughly this time....The distributor sounds like it may need a look,..as was mentioned above,around where the TFI plugs in,maybe?

 

[bagdranger]

I thought ignition too but goin back to what Earl said I checked the switch and actually 'looked at it' and everything looks fine. I also know this the run wire coming out of the switch is getting power and the high pressure pump on the rail is getting power in the start position but not the run position. Any idea?

Forgot to add it is spinning over and it is getting spark. Just not running. It will start until you turn the key back to run then it stops. Hince the high pressure pump gets no power in the run position.

 

[cavedweller]

Well troubleshooting at a distance is rough,...BUT,...In looking at the schematic in the much maligned Haynes manual,on page 12-37,..we start at the left hand side upper portion of this page,....there is a red/light green wire that goes into the computer control relay,(EEC),coil......So I thought that if you got someone to turn the key with you on the outside of vehicle,(passenger side),with either a stethoscope OR a piece of fuel or vacuum hose,placed on top of or taped to said relay ,(second in from firewall),....Once key is turned to run position this relay should STAY energized,...If when key is turned to ALL THE WAY run position AND you hear a click in your hose,then the red/light green wire is not keeping 12volts to this,EEC relay...which means there may be a problem with the ignition switch ,......The EEC relay brings and HOLDS the trucks computer ON LINE and it picks,(energizes), the fuel relay ....What we are doing here is checking this EEC relays' power feed .....Repeating ,...it and the fuel pump relay should BOTH click only ONCE when the key is turning from the start to the "run" position ....A place to start ,...maybe? If no else comes up with a better idea,...I'll be popping in from time to time over this week-end ,especially after 2100 hours or 9pm,if you think that I can be of some assist....

 

[cavedweller]

And actually all that I just said was said ALREADY by Earl43P...whose response I just read,...he said swiches I say relay,...BOTH are the same thingand since you have said that you have power in the red/light green wire EVEN in the run postion ..Could have a bad EEC relay ?

 

[bagdranger]

Thanks guys. I'll start chasing wires here soon. Ignition switch seems to be fine and Its sending power out on the red/lt green wire so its something other than the switch. Thanks caved I'll find that relay and check it out. I'll keep you posted.

 

[RyanL]

I don't mean to undermine what everyone else is saying, but most people are telling you to troubleshoot common no start problems. Judging by your original post, it sounds like it was starting and running fine before you changed the transmission so my guess is would be you forgot to connect something or something else got pinched. How exactly did you get to the transmission and what wire got pinched. Also, tell us more about this fusible link. Maybe you blew another one or something else on that circuit got fried (stanger things have happened). And like I said before, check your timing. Just because you have spark doesn't mean that it's right. Did you remove the distributor or the cap doing this work? Maybe even the wires aren't on in the right order if you removed them.

 

[cavedweller]

Well not exactly trouble shooting a no-start Ryan,.....I mean all sugestions are good at this stage ..We are thinking that he IS getting the thing running,BUT only as long as he holds pressure on his ignition key,( I ,myself,had to re-read the original post,I was doing too many things,at once ),.....See relays can be finicky ,(what Earl43P was indicating,don't know him but good info).....A relay,(switch), is basically a coil and some contacts ...Now this coil overtime can lose what is called resistance,OR it could after it gets hot open up,removing the energy flow way,(current path),only to reconnect once things cool down ....Heat up time on a relay coil happens very quickly,(very thin wire,thinner than #22?),.....I read,(meter), a good relay of the type and kind found in our trucks and it read about 62-64 ohms,read one from a truck that kept shutting off and it read about 10 ohms cold !..I just imagined what it would read hot,a true short !....The other way for relay failure is for them to open up hot, infinite ohms .... But I do agree the changing the tranny operation did SOMETHING ....And therefore your statement is probably just as valid,or EVEN more so than ours . Having more than one option is always good ....Let us see what develops

 

[bagdranger]

Well Ive been chasing wires this morning and I know this. The pcm is getting power in the run position and its getting ground. The problem has something to do with the run power to the fuel pumps. I noticed while trying to start the high pressure pump gets power but in run it gets nothing. Not even the 3 second start power to prime the system. The EEC relay has just been replaced (thinking that relay for the pcm was bad) and still not start. It starts (like caved said) when pressure is on the start position then everything stops when on popped back to the run position. I'm begining to think (and hoping its not) the PCM might be shorted out. Since when we went back together with the trans it did pinch the hot wire for the O2 sensor and burned up the fuseable link for power. Everything has been fixed that we messed up but it has shorted something out I feel and I'm having trouble finding it. The relay for the pumps are kicking when you first turn it on (3 second prime power) but its not reaching the pumps. Then again still could be the relay if there is a second way that during the starting procedure is bypassing the main relay while trying to crank, then when back to run it runs off the relay.

 

[cavedweller]

Okay,..what about this ...The fuel pump feed wire,(red),comes from the EEC power relay to a power trunk or nest,(all red power wires) ,two of these wires feed to the computer,and another of these red wires feed to the fuel pump relay coil,might want to check these connections out if you have not already,RED ones to the computer ,itself,maybe a little tougher to trace [/U]),.....Now you may consider Earl43Ps advie on either jumpering out the fuel pump relay or swapping it .....Also Can you jumper out the inertia switch,(inside passenger side next to tranny hump ,under dash)...? ...Your wire chase would hopefully be dark green/yellow to pink/black....on the other side of said module.....

So to sum all of this up,I would check the red line leaving the EEC relay all the way to the fuel pump relay,see if anything is loose or intermittant....Then I'd check the dark green/yellow line between the fuel pump relay and the inertia switch,making sure my connections are good.....Then if it starting is still in the failure mode, jumper out inertia switch,and try to start her again....See after that ,the last set of feeds are to the fuel pump circuit....Will be in and out today ,will monitor,if need be we can try other ideas.....

 

[cavedweller]

Ugh I forgot,..the inertia switch,(small black box,on floor near tranny hump,under glove box),has a small white button on top,this is the reset button. Try giving that a press or two before jumpering out said switch....And there maybe a difference in the way yours is wired,..in that the wires may come out of the bottom ,(Ford Factory original),......and both wires may be pink with black stripes,........