No 5th Gear / M5R2 5.0 Swap

[oddball101]

Hey guys, I'm reaching out here because I am at a loss. I have an '00 5.0 swap in my 01 Ranger Edge, and for the most part I have completed my M5R2 swap from the 4r70w. When the motor is running I cannot get it into 5th gear.

I had issues with the clutch not disengaging on any gears previously but I believe that was due to a slight misalignment with the rear of the tranny being slightly too high. Before I lowered the rear of the tranny, I installed an F550 master cylinder hoping it would resolve the issue, but ti did not. Only after lowering the rear of the transmission was I able to get it to cycle through the gears. I have not reconnected the driveshaft yet as I have to reinstall a newly fabbed (lower) tranny crossmember. The tranny is currently being supported by a jack stand for testing. The M5R2 came without a shifter but I've since installed a Core / Hurst shifter (as planned from the beginning).

Here's a pic of the slave throwout bearing resting on the clutch fingers. You can see where the centerforce ring teeth on the fingers have "trimmed" the blue plastic pieces upon compression.


Currently I have been testing functionality with the driveshaft removed but the rear end is still on jack stands. I was going to loosen the bell housing bolts and give her a shake but before doing that, I found that I could cycle all of the gears (minus 5th) with the motor running which was progress so I stopped there.

Here are some pics of my shift forks.





With motor off, I can shift through all gears effortlessly. With motor running, 5th won't even try and engage. It just sounds like a thud. No grinding, no popping out or anything. I have read that 5th and reverse go out together because they share a synchro, but I can get to reverse sooo is that still that same issue?

Is this just a sign that I will lose reverse too or could it be a sign that something else is going on that I may be able to remedy?

I have access and think I can remove the top cover if needed to inspect things.

I really need help figuring this thing out. Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[RonD]

The larger forks are for 1/2 and 3/4 gears, 5/rev is on the upper shift rail(in your pics) and at the rear of trans, small "forks" attached to that shaft.

If you think of how the gear shift works, in neutral when you pull shifter towards drivers side and then push it forward you are selecting the lowest shift rail/fork(in your picture) and pushing it Back to select 1st gear.

So to select 5th gear you move gear shift to passenger side and then push it forward, so upper shift rail/"fork" and it slides back, Reverse would be that "fork" moving forward.

So check that linkage and the engagement

 

[oddball101]

I suppose that is my next step, taking off the top cover and checking out that linkage. When I do get the top cover off, if the 5th/rev fork seems to be sitting properly, is there anything on the tranny side in the small housing where 5th is that I should check out?

Just got off the phone with the place I picked it up from. At least it is under the 90 day warranty. Unfortunately though, I will have to drive back up there to get my cash back. I have had the worst luck with obtaining a proper m5r2. I ordered two before this one. One was wrong year, right model and the other was right year, wrong model. I had to drive 2+ hours to return the second and exchange it for the correct version, and now this.. LOL.

..wtf, over..

I really hope it is just something stupid with the top cover because I really don't feel like going through all of the hassle, all over again.

Key point to M5R2 swap:
1. Obtain proper transmission in good working order

 

[RonD]

Are you using a 1997 or later M5OD-R2 from a 4.2l V6?

Essex 4.2l V6 block has same trans bolt pattern as 302/5.0l blocks

In 1997 shifter was moved back a bit on the R2 so better fit with Rangers

 

[AllanD]

If you are referring to the 3.8/4.2 as the ESSEX engine family that is incorrect, the Essex engine is English Ford engine family that has to my knowledge never made it to the US.

as for the 3.8/4.2 RWD engine having a common bell-housing pattern with the Windsor engine family (302/351) wrong again... I've got a Supercoupe transmission sitting here that I sincerely WISH would bolt to a 5.0...

The supercoupe trans is the M5R2 trans....

If you are using an F150 manual trans the proper nomenclature is M5OD-R1.

PLEASE don't use your own made up designations for the various Ford transmissions if you want
meaningful answers to your questions...

 

[oddball101]

I am using the M5DOD-R2, most commonly known as the M5R2 out of 2000 F150 4.2 v6 donor. It puts the shifter farthest back in the most ideal position like RonD said. The M5R1's (+ HD's) come in the rangers and Explorers. The Supercoupe uses what is known as an M5R2-RKE. Not sure what the bell housing bolt pattern is on those.

Anyhow, I just picked up my 4th transmission. I have a 90 cash back deal on the previous tranny so I opted to return that after I install this one. Got a pretty good deal on it if it really only has 49,000 miles as advertised. Spent the evening yanking out the last tranny and making preparations for this new one. Still have to get the metal plugs for the top cover installed in this new one (same year).

With the tranny out, I am doing the oil pan gasket as well since I found it was leaking pretty bad. I "intend" just to slip it around the bottom of the pan and walk it up after getting everything else cleaned up, but who knows how it will really go. I was having a heck of a time last night just getting the old gasket out. The new one will be interesting to say the least.

 

[RonD]

It is very odd to have problems with an M5OD-R2, or R1, they have been very reliable high mile transmissions.
Literally 100's of thousands of them out there still chugging along, to pick up 3, at random, that had problems is pretty long odds.

Maybe you should change your member name,
joking

 

[oddball101]

Actually, the first two were wrong types. The first one was right year / wrong model and the second was wrong year, right model. The third however was probably just fine, only a little more worn than this 4th one...

Pretty sure I found out what the problem is. Do you see what I see?


The pressure plate is supposed to sit on the flywheel. The bolt shoulders are too big and stop it from pulling the plate all the way in, regardless of torquing to spec. Hard to see from that angle when you are facing the plate trying to hold everything up and together, but it goes as the old rule of a good pool shooter: "Always walk around the table before picking your path, even if it seems obvious".

No one to blame but myself here. I should've known to check this instead of relying on the eyes of the person in front.

Naturally, I cannot find the thread pitch of the Zoom flywheel (164T, 50oz) just so I know for sure that I am safe with those 3/8 - 16 plate bolts, now that paranoia has set in. Nor can I find anyone locally that has 3/8 - 16, 1 inch bolts with .75 thread length (.25 for a quarter inch shoulder).

So, my search for proper plate bolts continues.

 

[RonD]

There is enough head room to add a few washers under the bolt heads to get shoulder out of the way.
Same number of washers on each bolt would still keep balance.

"If you can't raise the bridge, then lower the river"

 

[oddball101]

I just got off the phone with Centerforce asking them why they state not to use lock washers. I was told it is fine to do so as long as you're using thread locker and leaving enough room for the shank to penetrate (acting as the guide). That rule applies to those who don't realize the purpose for the shank (shoulder) at the base of the bolt.

So that solves it then. I'll put the washers back on them to see if that works, and if not, I will hit up Lowe's.

Thanks for bearing with me while I figure this out.

 

[oddball101]

Annd she's good to go. The pressure plate bolt shanks were the problem.

Everything good.

Cheers