Starting issues

[creepinjeepster]

Now that I've got the vacuum line issue solved, I'm still having starting issues. I've looked through the arcives and haven't seen anything that speaks of issues like mine so.........

When the engine is cold and it's started up, it starts without any hesitation. Maybe one and a half to two rotations before she cranks. When the engine is warm however, sometimes I have to hold the foot down on the excelerator which would make me think fuel problem, but I don't have to every time. The engine will turn, but stop then turn, then stop until she finally cranks, kind of like with a half dead battery. It makes me think the timing may be off some. I've tried adjusting it several times by ear. I can't use the timing marks as I can't find a mark anywhere on the balancer pulley and the actual timing marks that are SUPPOSE to be bolted to the front of the block aren't there. Previous owner removed when working on engine once and never replaced it. (That was ingenious) Never had to remove them myself on any vehicle I've ever worked on.

So is it possible that the distributor could be 180 out? Been a while since I've messed with one I can't remember, but I think it wouldn't start at all if it was, if I'm remembering right.

I've even tried pulling the dist. after putting eng. to TDC and realigning dist. but this hasn't helped either. So anyone got ideas on this?

 

[creepinjeepster]

Forgot to add other things I've checked....

Have done the starter fluid thing to check for any other vacuum leaks. None found.
I can hear the fuel pump so I know it's working. Need to find my fuel pressure tester to check how well though.
Tried adjusting idle set screw a little, didn't help either.
All fluid levels are good.
Transmission is not staying engaged. It does go in park.
Checked plugs and wires. Both are new now and gapped properly.
New dist cap and rotor.
No misses while it is running.
Has a little bit of a shake to it when putting it in gear, but pretty sure its due to a bad motor mount I need to replace on the pass side.

 

[richlands55]

Your timing is advanced too far. Or if you have a vaccum advance in your dist. it could be bad. I only caught part of this thread so I don`t know what kind of vehicle you have. Try backing the timing down a little bit at a time and see if that helps.

 

[creepinjeepster]

My dist doesn't have vac advance in dist. Where the dist is right now, if I move it the slightest either way the truck drops idle and wants to stall. If there is something I'm suppose to disconnect before adjusting the timing, I don't know what it is. I'm use to dist with vac advance on them.

 

[richlands55]

What vehicle do you have? size engine? at or manual? year?

 

[richlands55]

I loked back at your post. 91 3.0? If so you have a spout connector , remove it to set your timing then reconnect it. Should be in wiring at front of dist. look around top of timimg cover. It`s a shorting bar, square, probably black. Pull it out to set timing. You say you had your dist. out. Are you sure you don`t have it 1 tooth off? Set engine at tdc, pull dist. cap make sure rotor tip is pointing at #1 plug wire.

 

[creepinjeepster]

I loked back at your post. 91 3.0? If so you have a spout connector , remove it to set your timing then reconnect it. Should be in wiring at front of dist. look around top of timimg cover. It`s a shorting bar, square, probably black. Pull it out to set timing. You say you had your dist. out. Are you sure you don`t have it 1 tooth off? Set engine at tdc, pull dist. cap make sure rotor tip is pointing at #1 plug wire.

Yes, it's a 91 3.0 auto 2wd. Also listed on my profile under screen name.
I figured previous owner might even had dist off by one tooth. When I pulled it, I put motor TDC and put dist back in. Mark was right on #1. Wasn't sure if that would be totally right though since timing is suppose to be 10 degrees BTDC. So shouldn't the rotor actually end up a little before TDC?

Rich, you say this spout connector is at front of dist, then top of timing cover. Dist is in back of motor and timing cover is in front. So where exactly am I looking for this spout at? Is this spout a wire, vacuum line, or what?

 

[richlands55]

Sorry, I made a boo-boo. I was thinking about a v-8. I really can`t remember if the 3.0 that year had a spout connector or not. Look at the wiring around the dist. and see if you see a small square plug, if you do that would be the spout connector, it simply pulls out. Sorry I can`t help more, really hard to remember that far back. If you still have your emissions label on the rad. support[on top] that will tell you if you have a spout connector or not.

 

[creepinjeepster]

It shows some kind of connector to disconnect, but I don't see it on the motor anywhere. Only wiring I can see around the dist being in the back of the motor is the harness to the dist itself. Plugs into the side of it. Is this the plug? Was thinking if I unplugged it, it wouldn't start, but now that I think bout it, the dist gets spark from coil pack.

 

[creepinjeepster]

Also, still. Once I go to do this again, anybody know a way I can check the timing since I don't have ANY timing marks on my truck? I figured if I had a mark on the balancer pulley at least it would help, but I can't find a mark on it at all and of course as stated earlier in thread, there are none on the block.

 

[creepinjeepster]

Was missing hose that went from Vac tree to the MAP sensor on the firewall.

I have a timing light, but I've always been able to visually look on the pulley to find the mark. That way I can mark it with a bright color so it is easier to see when you put a timing light to it, but I can't find any mark what so ever on it. Begining to wonder if the pulley is even the one that is suppose to be on the truck.

 

[creepinjeepster]

Found the timing mark on my pulley. Don't have one to line it up to on the motor though. Spent a couple hours on it today. Have it running much better after turning the dist 180 degrees. It is still a little hesitant to start when warm, but nothing like it use to be. Figure maybe from it being drove like that so much by previous owner that maybe it will clear up after a while. Here's the strange part though. Truck is starting fine, but even though I found timing marks on the pulley, When hit with a timing light, you can't see them at all. I even marked it with white out so it would be noticed either. None of the marks are anywhere near where they should be to line up with the timing indicator that is missing off the motor. Can't figure out how it still runs like this. I even did the TDC and everything and the only thing NOT lining up is those timing marks.

 

[oachs83]

That is because you did not remove your spout while timing. Your timing is still off and your problem is not just going to go away. The reason it is so far off looking is because the computer adjusts timing with the spout in but you need to have the correct starting spot for the computer to work with. Make sense? Anyways here is a link to what your spout should look like. http://media.photobucket.com/image/ford timing spout/subford/Electrical/Ignition/Hold/SPOUT.jpg On your truck I believe you have two spots you can find the spout. One not far from the wires leaving your distributor and another back near the firewall passenger side near the HVAC unit. remember you want 10 degrees BTDC for timing.

 

[creepinjeepster]

Yes, I did have spout removed. Located it and removed before I started the rest. Where it is now is with the spout removed. Mine was located in the harness by the HVAC unit. Has two pink wires going to it. The spout is basically just a jumper for the wires. Pull it and it cuts the connection between the two wires.

This is going off the manual showing the cylinders in this order....
3 6
2 5
1 4
*
*=fan

The only way I see getting the timing completely correct where it should be is to tear the motor down and fix it at the timing chain where the previous owner screwed it up to begin with, but hey, guess that's what we get when we take over someone else's project. Especially when they apparently didn't know completely what they were doing.

 

[creepinjeepster]

Sorry, guess I went a little over with the last post. I know it's up front, just hate having to do a job that was just recently done, because the first person to do it, couldn't do it right.