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The ‘RAITH Party Cart….


alwaysFlOoReD

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And another trick to make sure the bolts aren't backing off, is to use a paint pen and mark the side of the bolt to the frame with a slash. Makes it much easier to see if any are getting loose.
 


ericbphoto

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And another trick to make sure the bolts aren't backing off, is to use a paint pen and mark the side of the bolt to the frame with a slash. Makes it much easier to see if any are getting loose.
Better yet…. Drill the heads and tie them all together with stainless safety wire. That should keep a retired guy busy for a while.

IMG_0489.jpeg
 

CamTheHedgehog

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I just clicked on this thread to see what was new, and this was the first message I see for some reason. I am stealing this now.
 

ericbphoto

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Another trick but mainly for mig welding. There are spray cans of stuff to use to prevent the welding dingle balls from sticking to the gun and also what you're working on
I use this stuff. There may be better products. But this one tickles my sense of humor.
IMG_0493.png
 

Rick W

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All good thoughts and all good advice - and all appreciated - except maybe that cooter snot stuff. I had to look up what it was. I’m not welding anything. But it’s good to know where you can get the right snot when you need it, so I appreciate that

I know you guys probably know all this stuff. I’m going to respond in a “mechanical engineering 101“ fashion, with the basics, stepwise, not to sound smart, but to lay out everything and have you guys check out my thinking.

First and foremost, remember, I’m not looking for the best way to build a trailer, or the best way to put a steel frame together, or the best way to put an aluminum frame together. This is one of my harebrained schemes, I want the assembly certainly to function properly, but I’m also looking for that weird Rube Goldberg contraption appeal.

Simply on the nuts and bolts. I think everybody knows that the bolt only carries a small percentage of the load, and the majority of the load is carried by the friction between the bolted elements, a friction that is increased and targeted by how much you tighten the bolts.

For that approach to be successful, there has to be a maximum contact area between the members that are under the pressure of the bolts. I’m cutting up pieces of my channel to make my brackets. All the holes are drilled on the flat side, so the flat sides will be flat face-to-face with a 90° bolt.

If I understand what @alwaysFIOoReD is saying, he is concerned that the nuts on the backside of where I’ve drilled the channel flange will not sit flat on the back. While that is not ideal, I really don’t think it’s much of a problem because all the nut is doing at that point is squeezing the two elements together. The nut does not have to sit flat to generate enough squeezing pressure for the friction strength to be accomplished.

I had the further thought of using a spade wood bit to clean up the bolt hole on the angled part of the flange, so the nut would sit flat. But in reality, tightening the nuts with a low setting on my impact wrench will probably deform the aluminum enough that it’s sitting almost flat, and again, tension on the bolt is the critical item here, and if the nut only catches by 60-70%. I don’t think anything is compromised. Having said that, if they really look cockeyed in the final result, I will use a spade bit and flatten off the face of the holes a little bit.

A little more on this friction, I’m planning on bonding everything. I’m going to either use gorilla glue, or E 6000/goop. All three were actually developed for bonding aluminum, and then they expanded to gluing other things in the marketplace. Like anything it has to be applied properly. Clean the surface, etch the surface, initial tightening, final torque., etc.

All of the bolts will also be buried in E6000/goop. The chemical surface tension properties make it an excellent thread locker, and with the fact that it remains pliable, nothing should vibrate free.

& I do regularly check that kind of stuff on my harebrained schemes.

One minor goof, and a second thing I realized, just getting the one cross piece put in place. When I drilled the tap holes in the short pieces of channel that I’m using as brackets, the drill bit was a hair too large. The self tapping screws do what they are supposed to, but if you tighten up a hair too much, they strip. One of today’s projects is to use a piece of scrap and go down 1-2 64ths of an inch on the drill bit to find the ideal diameter tap diameter. Those short, full channel pieces will be redone. That cross piece will be under the end of the casket, and that 4 inch extension will hold another piece of channel that will be the bumper containing the lights.

Second, I cut my cross piece at 34 inches for a bunch of reasons. One reason is the tongue box is 33-3/4” wide at its widest spot. But that will be right where I’m going to have to bend the channel inwards to make the tongue. I plan on cutting out about an inch of the flange of the channel without damaging the web of the channel, and then pulling the two pieces together up near where the coupling would be. So I’m going to make my cross pieces a half inch or an inch like longer/wider to allow for a little bit of movement around the corners of the box.

I don’t know what’s going to happen when I go to band the channel. Most of me believes it will bend without incident. It’ll only be about a 20° bend. If there is any indication of any cracking whatsoever, I’m simply going to make a steel plate/bracket across the bend that will sit inside the channel and bolt in place.

When I have it all together, I can quickly disassemble it, and put the bonding in and set the bolts properly.

Finally, the top is going to be covered with the remains of my 1/8 inch diamond plate. At every joint, I’ll stitch it with a few extra bolts or rivets to further enhance the joints. It will be bonded in those areas. I’m not going to cover the whole bottom side, but I will make up similar braces for the most important joints and bond and bolt them in.

And a final, final thought, the casket will sit on top of the trailer, but the gas grill and the tongue box will both actually rest inside the frame of the trailer. Now that I can see the thing a little bit, I think my plan is going to be to sit those two pieces on the ground inside the frame, prop them up to the right height, and then build the trailer frame around them so there is minimal free motion

But that may change by 5 o’clock today…

Any comments and concerns are always welcome, I don’t want this thing coming apart after I’ve got $500 of beer in it
 
Last edited:

Rick W

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I made a new crossbar for the rear with the new width in mind, and two more. There will be a total of five, but I’m going to locate two of them after I have my springs and axles installed. I want to place them over the center spring mount and the front spring mount.

I drilled half a dozen of my angle plates with the smaller bit so the self tapping screws will hold better. Then I took apart what I had, and reassembled it

IMG_1546.jpeg


The self tapping screws are, and are not, a disappointment. They’re actually doing exactly what I had planned, giving me a rapid way to bolt this all together, but I wish they were better quality.

About one in 20, I’m very surprised, the head snaps off while it’s trying to tap in the aluminum. I can’t go up a size on the drill bit or every one of them strips. That’s not catastrophic, because with a power driver, I can pull the bracket out in a second, clamp the broken bolt in the vice, and then just spin the bracket off.

So then I sprayed the bracket holes with WD-40 before I tried to tap them. That worked great, but I had the opposite problem that about one in 10 didn’t want to bite and ended up partially stripping the hole by the time they went through. Again, not catastrophic, because they’re all going to have backing nuts. And like I said, it’s working well enough that I’m getting some speed in this assembly now. I can’t complain about the bolts because I paid $25 for a box of 2500.

I will have to add a cleaning step with some lacquer thinner or something like that to get the WD-40 completely off before I put the bonding material on.

Before I bolted it all together, I notched the flanges of the channel where the tongue will be bent in.

IMG_1545.jpeg


After I get it where I want it, I’m going to make mending plates for the top and the bottom of the channel, maybe some other additional support.

My spring equalizers came in early today, a nice surprise, because that’s the logical next step: to mount the springs and axles. So the next couple days will be modifying and mounting the mounts, placing the axles, but then I have to cut or extend the axles for the right wheel track. Not hard, but it just takes time.

Good feeling now that it’s starting to look like something…
 

ericbphoto

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About one in 20, I’m very surprised, the head snaps off while it’s trying to tap in the aluminum. I can’t go up a size on the drill bit or every one of them strips. That’s not catastrophic, because with a power driver, I can pull the bracket out in a second, clamp the broken bolt in the vice, and then just spin the bracket off.
I'm pretty sure that self-drillong/self tapping screws are primarily designed for thin sheet metal. Not really for heavy structural pieces. It's amazing what can actually be done with them.
 

sgtsandman

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I made a new crossbar for the rear with the new width in mind, and two more. There will be a total of five, but I’m going to locate two of them after I have my springs and axles installed. I want to place them over the center spring mount and the front spring mount.

I drilled half a dozen of my angle plates with the smaller bit so the self tapping screws will hold better. Then I took apart what I had, and reassembled it

View attachment 108522

The self tapping screws are, and are not, a disappointment. They’re actually doing exactly what I had planned, giving me a rapid way to bolt this all together, but I wish they were better quality.

About one in 20, I’m very surprised, the head snaps off while it’s trying to tap in the aluminum. I can’t go up a size on the drill bit or every one of them strips. That’s not catastrophic, because with a power driver, I can pull the bracket out in a second, clamp the broken bolt in the vice, and then just spin the bracket off.

So then I sprayed the bracket holes with WD-40 before I tried to tap them. That worked great, but I had the opposite problem that about one in 10 didn’t want to bite and ended up partially stripping the hole by the time they went through. Again, not catastrophic, because they’re all going to have backing nuts. And like I said, it’s working well enough that I’m getting some speed in this assembly now. I can’t complain about the bolts because I paid $25 for a box of 2500.

I will have to add a cleaning step with some lacquer thinner or something like that to get the WD-40 completely off before I put the bonding material on.

Before I bolted it all together, I notched the flanges of the channel where the tongue will be bent in.

View attachment 108523

After I get it where I want it, I’m going to make mending plates for the top and the bottom of the channel, maybe some other additional support.

My spring equalizers came in early today, a nice surprise, because that’s the logical next step: to mount the springs and axles. So the next couple days will be modifying and mounting the mounts, placing the axles, but then I have to cut or extend the axles for the right wheel track. Not hard, but it just takes time.

Good feeling now that it’s starting to look like something…
You might want to raise up that grill a little. It's going to drag for a bit sitting that low before the bottom bends or breaks off.
 

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I want the assembly certainly to function properly, but I’m also looking for that weird Rube Goldberg contraption appeal.
Making up and utilizing some of these Wonder Brackets would cover both of those bases for you.

wonder bracket.jpg
 

Rick W

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You might want to raise up that grill a little. It's going to drag for a bit sitting that low before the bottom bends or breaks off.
Haha Funny man!

In trying to shrink this thing to a manageable length, one of the things I have some flexibility in, is where my 13 W feet fit between the casket and the gas grill. I’ve done the measurements 100 times, but there’s nothing like sitting on it and putting your feet into it. That’s what this is about. And if you think it looks low now, I think that frame is 10 inches higher than where it will be on the tires!

The aluminum frame is so light, I can easily pick it up and move it side to side over the gas grill. The crossmember behind the grille will be at the end of the casket. The cross piece in front of the grille will be the last cross piece before it tapers in. I’m going to add connecting pieces between those two cross pieces to support the grill. (Along the sides of the grille). My current thinking is to get that much put together, after I have the wheels on it, support the grill up from the bottom with the x4s, until it’s in the right place to avoid smashing the bottom off, but not too high on the top, and then bolting it through the sides to the frame, and then cutting the bottom off

The other issue is the propane tanks. It doesn’t change my plan, I just have to consider them in the various adjustments. And I’m planning on two tanks, but the reason for the second will remain a surprise…

One last thought, If you’re worried about it hanging too low, consider this: the frame is actually upside down right now. So it’s not the bottom we have to worry about, it’s the hood over the burners when I flip it over!

Keep those cards and letters coming in…
 

Rick W

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Making up and utilizing some of these Wonder Brackets would cover both of those bases for you.

View attachment 108557
You read my mind!

I have two of those from my old left-handed smoke shifter, but I need to find two from a right handed smoke shifter. They’re very similar to the brackets that hold the Demler overflow tank (non pressure model #7) on the weblefetzer, but you need them inverted with the “big P” connection facing the other way. I considered stealing the brackets from my bilateral rakafratz, but I have big plans for that with the next project.

Good thinking though. Whenever I think of something twisted up and backwards, you’re always the first one I think of!!!
 

alwaysFlOoReD

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If you have problems with the nuts being on an angle, you can make your own washers from the top and bottom flange of your c-channel. It naturally has the proper slope. If you decide to do this, I would drill the holes first, then run the flange thru the table saw, then finally use the chopsaw (mitersaw) to cut into squares.
One of the reasons I don't like the idea of not using them is that you will be introducing a bending moment into the bolt. I'm not sure how critical that would be...
 

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Rick W

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If you have problems with the nuts being on an angle, you can make your own washers from the top and bottom flange of your c-channel. It naturally has the proper slope. If you decide to do this, I would drill the holes first, then run the flange thru the table saw, then finally use the chopsaw (mitersaw) to cut into squares.
One of the reasons I don't like the idea of not using them is that you will be introducing a bending moment into the bolt. I'm not sure how critical that would be...
Thank you, another good point, which is why I love discussing my harebrained schemes in an open forum.

My (mild) concern was that the nuts would not be grabbing evenly across the threads, which might lead to stripping the nut off. I did not think about the bending action on the bolts. If the self tappers were a decent rate of steel, I would still have no worries.

As I dozed off last night, I had a come to Jesus meeting with myself. I’m disappointed in my self tapping bolts, but they are working for doing a quick layout. But the more I fool with them, I don’t trust them at all under a load. I love building crazy stuff, but I don’t have a death wish.

Speaking of the load, it’s not just the trailer and taking corners and hitting bumps, it’s a dynamic loading a little bit like a tanker. If I have a compartment or two full of beer or soda and ice, and maybe the ice is partially melted, it can slosh around from side to side and forward the back. I know from working with Heil tankers years ago when I worked in the chemical plant, that such motion of liquids can create tremendous spot loading in just about every direction, and, of course, at the perfectly wrong time.

So with y’all’s comments, and my Epiphany, before I go any further, I’m going to upgrade all the bolts and change my methods. I was always planning on drilling out certain spots and putting in the 1/2” stainless bolts I acquired. On the rest of the holes, I’m going to upgrade to 3/8 inch steel bolts. I don’t know the grade rating is on the self tapping bolts, but they sure aren’t grade 8!

On 90% of the self tappers, I am going to reverse the direction of the bolt so I can tap the current feed side to the receiving side with a 3/8-16 thread. And whether I use some more of the self tapping or the 3/8, or something else, I’m going to tap the holes with the tap, and not rely on the self tapping bolts for anything halfway critical. It’ll take a little longer, but it’s still not a big burden since I can use my five dollar Ryobi pawnshop reversible drill to do the tapping if I use a little WD-40 with it. It goes quick.

The other catalyst to this decision was thinking out my spring hangers. They’re definitely going to be steel, but I’ve been doing a lot of thinking on how to attach them to the aluminum.

I think I’m going to fab them with a leg that rises on the inside side, so I do the usual two bolts through the bottom of the channel, but then I can also put one or two bolts through the web on the riser. Something like that, it’s still in development.

I went through all my inventory, and I didn’t have any steel pieces that I could convert easily, so it killed me, but I went down to Metal Supermarket and bought a drop 2 in.² tube, 48 inches long for $22 that I could chop up and make the spring hangers. I’ll have enough for this and the next project.

The final thing that spurred me to fixing the bolts in the frame now was thinking about how the gas grill will be mounted. I think I figured that out, but the bore things I do to the frame, the harder it will be to square it up later.

So I’m going to upgrade the bolting, make, and mount the spring hangers, and about the axles after adjusting them to the right length. A couple steps backwards, but it will be a much better result. This is also the guinea pig for the converter dolly, and I’ve been learning tons.
 

alwaysFlOoReD

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Sounds good. Be aware that there is galvanic corrosion between steel and aluminum. On my 1980 Grumman van with aluminum body, they used hardwood between frame and body. I would probably use vinyl floor tile. Also paint or coat your steel bolts to protect against galvanic corrosion. On my 1977 Pintos, the connection of the aluminum bumper and frame broke away on both of my rear bumpers. Steel bolts against aluminum with moisture is not good....
Also, I would suggest that the holes are drilled exactly same size as bolt shank, and that the shank supports both pieces being bolted together. If necessary, use extra washers until you get to the threaded portion of the bolt. No need for grade 8 IMO, grade 5 is all I've seen on bolt on hitch receivers.
SAE grade is number of lines plus 2 on the bolt head. So 3 lines is grade 5, 6 lines plus 2 is grade 8, etc. No lines is grade 2.
 

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