88 2.9L Misfireing/backfireing issue

Mark_88 · Nov 27, 2016

Well...that is encouraging...thanks for the update.

I was about to say that I doubt this is the cause...but I'm not familiar with how the v6 sounds when the lifters go wonky...the 4 banger is pretty obvious when the valves are floating...or not doing what normal valves do...and it either dies or makes enough outward noise to let you know it is suffering a brutal attack...then it recovers and acts as if it never happened.

So...keep us posted how this progresses... :icon_thumby:

88 XLT Ranger · Nov 28, 2016

Mark_88 said:
Well...that is encouraging...thanks for the update.

I was about to say that I doubt this is the cause...but I'm not familiar with how the v6 sounds when the lifters go wonky...the 4 banger is pretty obvious when the valves are floating...or not doing what normal valves do...and it either dies or makes enough outward noise to let you know it is suffering a brutal attack...then it recovers and acts as if it never happened.

So...keep us posted how this progresses...

Another fail attempt :dunno:

I thought I had it figured out this goes to show you never know. I warmed it up hit the highway the same place loss off power popping. I was pissed to say the least this thing gets you down to the point of giving up. This has to be a cracked head issue it don't gain oil or have any loss of coolant. One thing it does after driving bubbles hard into the coolant overflow tank. It don't have any overheating on the temp gauge it is always the normal or below. I did notice I had the heater hoses disconnected from the heater core in a loop. Once I put it back it did this worse? Both heater hoses get hot. I don't know this is one never ending nightmare thus far. I can't try the Moroso seal its to cold into freezing temps at night here

Its weird going down the grade at 55mph coasting you touch the gas and it will pop every 3 seconds. You think going down hill at 45% outside temp it would cool quick if it is a cracked head issue

Mark_88 · Nov 29, 2016

Dang again!~

I think the bubbles in the tank are simply an air lock in the system that needs to be burped. With everything you've done so far it is quite likely you have, again, more than one issue to deal with...but cracked heads I don't think are one of them.

Do you see white smoke out the exhaust at any point other than normal steam on a cold day? That is also a sure sign of cracked heads as the coolant will eventually get into the combustion chamber (not always, but usually).

The glove test would have shown you a sure fire telltale sign if done correctly...so, again...probably an air lock that is not allowing the coolant to circulate properly and it is, therefore, getting hot spots...a thermal imagine tool would show you that if anyone is in your area that offers a thermal scan. to check for even colling.

So...my instinct tells me...again...you have a wire issue that is causing sporadic signal crossing and fouling your ignition system by throwing it off proper timing/spark.

I could be wrong and it could be something else that I'm not familiar with...

88 XLT Ranger · Nov 29, 2016

Mark_88 said:
Dang again!~

I think the bubbles in the tank are simply an air lock in the system that needs to be burped. With everything you've done so far it is quite likely you have, again, more than one issue to deal with...but cracked heads I don't think are one of them.

Do you see white smoke out the exhaust at any point other than normal steam on a cold day? That is also a sure sign of cracked heads as the coolant will eventually get into the combustion chamber (not always, but usually).

The glove test would have shown you a sure fire telltale sign if done correctly...so, again...probably an air lock that is not allowing the coolant to circulate properly and it is, therefore, getting hot spots...a thermal imagine tool would show you that if anyone is in your area that offers a thermal scan. to check for even colling.

So...my instinct tells me...again...you have a wire issue that is causing sporadic signal crossing and fouling your ignition system by throwing it off proper timing/spark.

I could be wrong and it could be something else that I'm not familiar with...

No white smoke other than on cold start up I had issues with the upper and lower radiator hoses sucking together. It would push coolant into the overflow tank but not suck it back in. I took the radiator cap removed the spring and rubber inside. It works good now pushes and sucks back in like normal. I know its not right but the other way I kept having to pull the cap off being sucked tight on the inside rubber. What would cause this?

Mark_88 · Nov 29, 2016

First thing that comes to mind is the hoses are not lined with a coiled wire like the newer ones are. The coiled wire helps to prevent the hoses from collapsing under this type of situation.

The actual cause of the collapsing hoses is the rad cap is not working properly and the system is not bled properly (air pockets removed). Removing the spring on the rad cap should actually make it worse.

Replacing the rad cap with one that works (key word here is "works") should fix the problem...maybe all rad related problems...but before replacing the cap on the rad (the new working one) top up the rad and run the engine from cold to when the t-stat opens( about 7 minutes tops). You will see the fluids start to circulate...then put the cap on the rad and road test...if there is still a problem after that you may need to burp the system again...

Some find that parking the vehicle on a slight uphill incline while doing the above will help to eliminate air pockets...others have mentioned other methods...such as installing a flush/fill valve on one of the heater hoses and only adding fluids through that opening...not the rad cap.

88 XLT Ranger · Nov 30, 2016

Mark_88 said:
First thing that comes to mind is the hoses are not lined with a coiled wire like the newer ones are. The coiled wire helps to prevent the hoses from collapsing under this type of situation.

The actual cause of the collapsing hoses is the rad cap is not working properly and the system is not bled properly (air pockets removed). Removing the spring on the rad cap should actually make it worse.

Replacing the rad cap with one that works (key word here is "works") should fix the problem...maybe all rad related problems...but before replacing the cap on the rad (the new working one) top up the rad and run the engine from cold to when the t-stat opens( about 7 minutes tops). You will see the fluids start to circulate...then put the cap on the rad and road test...if there is still a problem after that you may need to burp the system again...

Some find that parking the vehicle on a slight uphill incline while doing the above will help to eliminate air pockets...others have mentioned other methods...such as installing a flush/fill valve on one of the heater hoses and only adding fluids through that opening...not the rad cap.

Thanks again Mark :icon_thumby:

I do very much appreciate any and all help I get the point of being lost nothing I do works. The radiator hoses are factory items with staples in them real weak no springs in them. I think the flush/fill deal in the heater hose is best I noticed a lot of noise like sucking air in the feed top heater hose when I had the radiator cap on that was not modified. The reason I took the spring out was the hoses sucking together and the cap getting sucked tight on the inner rubber under spring. It works good now sucks in and out no sucking together of the radiator hoses. Maybe this is why some of the popping? back in July coming up a steep grade the lifters where making racket and it was loosing power. My thought was worn lifters or cam bearings oil thining out due to heat once the oil gets hot it looses pressure to the lifters. I pulled over to cool her down I noticed both radiator hoses sucked together and cap sucked tight. Once I got it cooled down hit the road and within 3 miles popping started. My question could this be all linked together? I need to get spring inner type hoses and that flush /fill "T" fitting for the heater hose. I got a brand 13lb new radiator cap with pressure relief tab I can use

Mark_88 · Nov 30, 2016

It could be a big part of the problem...or just another potential bigger problem if the heads do crack by overheating. Fixing this would simply eliminate another potential major repair that you probably don't need...unless you are planning to replace the 2.9 with something else or just have it rebuilt.

My main head scratching is all about the sporadic nature of the problem. When something can clear up so quickly and the engine acts as if there is nothing wrong and then spring up as if out of nowhere for no logical reason it says very loud and clear that it is an issue with something electrical or computer controlled.

So...again...fix what you know is a problem and get rid of those from the equation and see what happens. Replacing the rad hoses is a great idea if they are original...how they survived for this long is another story but I personally have had very expensive repairs resulting from a piece of $30 hose that would have prevented the repair completely.

My rebuilt 2.3 head that cost me $$$$ and was a dream come true was lost because of sheer stupidity on my part when I overlooked an overheat issue...

When that is corrected (changed hoses and rad cap as well as burping the air out of the system) you can at least clear that worry from your mind. If it also helps to reduce or eliminate the popping then bonus time...

88 XLT Ranger · Nov 30, 2016

Mark_88 said:
It could be a big part of the problem...or just another potential bigger problem if the heads do crack by overheating. Fixing this would simply eliminate another potential major repair that you probably don't need...unless you are planning to replace the 2.9 with something else or just have it rebuilt.

My main head scratching is all about the sporadic nature of the problem. When something can clear up so quickly and the engine acts as if there is nothing wrong and then spring up as if out of nowhere for no logical reason it says very loud and clear that it is an issue with something electrical or computer controlled.

So...again...fix what you know is a problem and get rid of those from the equation and see what happens. Replacing the rad hoses is a great idea if they are original...how they survived for this long is another story but I personally have had very expensive repairs resulting from a piece of $30 hose that would have prevented the repair completely.

My rebuilt 2.3 head that cost me $$$$ and was a dream come true was lost because of sheer stupidity on my part when I overlooked an overheat issue...

When that is corrected (changed hoses and rad cap as well as burping the air out of the system) you can at least clear that worry from your mind. If it also helps to reduce or eliminate the popping then bonus time...

Mark would the TPS make this issue? one think I haven't tested. The radiator hoses I can't find any with springs inside only Gates they say ( Re-engineered materials resist vacuum collapse. This reduces the need for internal springs in many applications ) I am not sure if these are best? The burping I did it on a slope deal last time it pushed coolant out twice. What it the best way to burp it without loosing coolant?

Mark_88 · Dec 1, 2016

OK...if they don't make them with springs (probably better since the springs can rust) then get what is recommended and won't collapse.

The TPS, if not working properly, can cause a number of issues...including no power. Worth testing and replacing if it is out of spec...should be 5v to the power feed but the resistance is the thing to look at when the throttle is moved through the range of motion.

I don't have the numbers but I'm sure they are in a tech article on the main page.

Do you always buy your gas from the same place and the same grade or have you tried different gas and higher octane?

88 XLT Ranger · Dec 1, 2016

Mark_88 said:
OK...if they don't make them with springs (probably better since the springs can rust) then get what is recommended and won't collapse.

The TPS, if not working properly, can cause a number of issues...including no power. Worth testing and replacing if it is out of spec...should be 5v to the power feed but the resistance is the thing to look at when the throttle is moved through the range of motion.

I don't have the numbers but I'm sure they are in a tech article on the main page.

Do you always buy your gas from the same place and the same grade or have you tried different gas and higher octane?

Mark

Can I just un-plug the TPS like I did with the temp sensor and O2 and Air temp sensors see if it helps? I been getting gas at Cheveron regular unleaded. I thought about that as well and changed to Shell unleaded no change still popping. I did try Red Line fuel system cleaner still no improvement

Mark_88 · Dec 1, 2016

Not sure that would help to unplug the tps...

Not sure if there is a tech article on this but probably is and it is probably similar to this one...

http://www.enduringautomotive.com/tps/

Mark_88 · Dec 5, 2016

Part of the problem of getting older is I get lazy...and I get misdirected...but I found this in the Tech Article section that might be simpler to follow to test the TPS...

http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/winter2009/throttle_position_sensor.shtml

88 XLT Ranger · Dec 6, 2016

Mark_88 said:
Part of the problem of getting older is I get lazy...and I get misdirected...but I found this in the Tech Article section that might be simpler to follow to test the TPS...

http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/winter2009/throttle_position_sensor.shtml

Mark

I went ahead and changed the TPS to new Borg Warner one. It didn't change anything still popping bogging. I changed the radiator hoses now no bubbling in overflow tank and no sucking together of the hoses. I drove it 13 miles all down hill popping bogging. I shut it off 20 min still same I went 2 more miles shut it off 1/2 hour fired it up popping than it cleared up ran great all over town as I started home its all up hill after 5 miles it started popping bogging all the way home. This morning it would turn over but woulden't start I did this like 15 times. It would try to kick over I got in as it did this I pressed the throttle down a bit than it finaly started. I smelled a lot of fuel I let it run 10 min shut it off it fired right back up

I just checked the fuel pressure key on engine off 42psi engine running at idle 32psi engine running at 2k 36psi. I thought the popping not starting maybe fuel issue. It use to start but run real slow almost dieing but after 10 seconds go up in rpm's. I drove it today popping bogging never cleared up its strange it pops a little on level ground with light throttle 35mph give it more popping real bad I press the throttle to the floor it shifts into a lower gear no popping it revs up but bogging bad. I lift off the throttle it shifts back into high gear and popping bogging

Mark_88 · Dec 6, 2016

Shucks!

Spontaneous come and go keeps telling me it is a wiring issue.

The fuel pressure is good for that year engine and providing the actual TPS (new part) is functioning the way it should then you have pretty much eliminated all the most likely parts that can cause the popping/bogging...except a possible wire short...but even that seems unlikely...

Instead of offering any further comments you might want to go over this list that I found on another site...

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/engine-backfires-while-running

It's a pretty detailed list of things that cause the backfire/popping noises you are hearing but everything I read in that is pretty much "fixed" or constants that you've looked at...but if you have time to view this go over it and see if anything clicks...

88 XLT Ranger · Dec 7, 2016

Mark_88 said:
Shucks!

Spontaneous come and go keeps telling me it is a wiring issue.

The fuel pressure is good for that year engine and providing the actual TPS (new part) is functioning the way it should then you have pretty much eliminated all the most likely parts that can cause the popping/bogging...except a possible wire short...but even that seems unlikely...

Instead of offering any further comments you might want to go over this list that I found on another site...

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/engine-backfires-while-running

It's a pretty detailed list of things that cause the backfire/popping noises you are hearing but everything I read in that is pretty much "fixed" or constants that you've looked at...but if you have time to view this go over it and see if anything clicks...

Mark thanks

I read through them the only thing I think it can be is lifter or lifers not pumping up. Now it revs up to 4+K in low gear if it where a lifter issue I don't think it would rev up? I took carb cleaner sprayed it on all vacuum lines and intake manifold and brake booster vacuum line no change. I just took a spray bottle of water went over all wires I see nothing in the way of a spark. I don't know I never had starting issues until this popping started. It seams like its running out of fuel but its not I am about ready to give up run it until she comes un-glued

One thing I did was un-plug the vacuum line from intake plenum to air cleaner box. I could hear the popping real good in the plenum. If it where a lifter issue I don't think you could adjust the rocker arms to make it a solid lifter. Hell I am lost on this on going issue I don't know what els to do at this piont

88 2.9L Misfireing/backfireing issue

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