At a cross roads

[FritzTKatt]

What I have now... (a four-letter word starting with S). 4" rough country kit on the TTB. 31" tires.

Really just want to flex it, and in the future run 35's. From what I can find the Duff setups are about the best bolt on money can buy. For the nominal $2,400 or so shipped to my door with everything included (the stage 3 deal-o-meal, and steering stabilizer).

Or have to buy beam brackets (duff or skyjacker), coils, arms (definitely duff for the heims), shocks, brake lines, pitman arm (skyjacker) and end up spending just about as much money in the end. Doesn't help my coil buckets are about trash too.

I've read in the past that the most you can run on a D35 TTB is 35's before you start breaking things. Is this true? I knew a guy who ran 38's and broke something about every time he went off road, but he also drives like an idiot and is more than happy to romp it into an unknown puddle or what not.

Then there's the SAS. Locally, a '77 F-150 D44 is going for about $2-300. I'm having a hard time figuring how much it'll end up costing me in the long run (including a percentage for effort). Mostly figuring all the parts needed... coils, buckets, shocks, t-bar mount, steering setup, likely replace the wear parts on the axle (bearings, ball joints, brakes), machining costs (to shorten the shaft), rims, rear shafts or lug adapters...

The build threads I've read all assume a lot of information or leave out details. Not that I couldn't figure it out in due time, I'd like to put it on in a weekend. A SAS with all the figures and parts known and bought can pretty much be assembled on the bench and dropped right in, or a kit for the TTB can be bolted right in too, then a trip to the alignment shop.

Am I missing something or what?

 

[kryptonitecb]

I have 37's on a ttb D35 and when I push it it breaks. Mild to medium trail riding is no problem.

As for SAS, I priced mine out to the nut and bolts to the tune of $1500. Many on here have seen over 2k without getting into the really expensive parts. At first glance it'll seem like you can do it under 1000 but the little stuff adds up fast.

It's all up to your discretion on what direction to go. I can just give you a few things to consider:

1. Are you going for hardcore or fun on the trails?

2. Is this going to be a vehicle that sees the street more than dirt?

3. What has broken so far when you go offroad?

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic

 

[FritzTKatt]

I'd like to be able to rough it some, but I take it easy and stay within the truck's limits.

It's my DD. Most likely for the next year or so. But 99% of that time will be while I'm in the Marines. For now, I'm having as much fun with it as I can in 4 months before I ship to Parris Island.

I haven't broken anything (knock on TTB with sledgehammer). Did unseat a coil the other day, didn't know it would droop that much, but I was going too fast because I negotiated that before with no problems. That's how I figured out my coil retainer tabs are broken... So did I break it? Probably.

Haven't popped the pumpkin with the RC bracket yet, but there's a little dent in the housing from it. And I have bigger (more drop) bumpstops, with bumpstop drops. It only up-flexes about an inch IIRC. EDIT: I should really re-test that, it was with the sway-bar on. I've been taking it off when I go off-road. When making short trips between places, it handles no differently because the RC springs are so damn stiff.

Haven't had a problem with my Warn lockouts, likely because I payed good money for them. Due to the alignment shop's poor skills with the TTB and lack of knowledge of it, that might be a loss for my steering geometry.

Going moderate with 31's isn't breaking anything, yet. I'd like to run 35's as I said, but that'll be when I get out on fleet and have some loot to put 4.10's in and pay for the new rubber and rims.

Doing some further searching into steering setups with the TTB, it really seems a Duff setup with a skyjackass extreme drop arm with give me what I need to be driveable, and the $60 or whatever for a steering stabilizer will help out a lot too.

I have no intentions of half-assing it whichever way I go. Not everything has to be name-brand top-shelf, but I have learned in the few short years on this Earth that those things typically save you from a lot of busted knuckles and full swear jars.

Funny thing, it took me less time to ratchet strap my coil back in place out in the field than it did to install it at home, and somehow touched my alignment up just a tid-bit. Also I didn't have a problem the rest of the day, just didn't act a fool and went over things without the spotter.

 

[4x4junkie]

I've had 35s on my locked D35 for a bit over 8 years & 40,000 miles now. I think that I use it pretty hard (frequenting trails like Rubicon), though I'm sure there are some who (ab)use their trucks even harder than I do mine, however it's held up great so far.

What it sounds to me is you want the Duff dual-use buckets (to replace your rusted ones) and run a set of early Bronco springs, along with extended radius arms and extended shock mounts (of course you'll want to get rid of that drop-plate pivot bracket extension too). Most crucial though is that you also have your steering sorted out.
The SJ #FA600 drop arm should work fine at 4" lift, though a K-link setup would be better still. You could get Superlift's Superrunner kit and modify it to work correct, or you could build something even better from scratch.

Whatever the case, it sounds like the D35 should be plenty for what you're looking to do.
Take a look at my BII build. Not including a recent Fox shock purchase I've got maybe $700 tied up into the suspension. Granted I had a set of used axle pivots on hand and built my own extended radius arms, it still proves you don't have to dump a lot of coin into it to get good performance from it.

 

[FritzTKatt]

I'm lost as to why I can't rip the old steering setup out, flip it off for a picture, put 2 tierod ends on each knuckle, cut a proper tube to match inbetween them, weld them up, and then weld a drag link on there just like everyone has done with their solid axle.

Maybe have to bend the tube for clearances. Or maybe I'm just missing something.

 

[FritzTKatt]

Had to move the truck and checked my steering at a glance. My truck sits good in relation to hub center and axle pivot center. The tierod angle is probably 3-4" above where it should be in the diagrams and proper build pics. I use a rough country 4" drop arm, which is really about 2" as we all know.

One thing that concerns me, is that my caster MAY be off. Judging by how the tierod end is flexed into the pass beam at the back, and pushed up at the front. Like the axle is tilted over itself to the front. And the driver side doesn't seem too bad. EDIT: however it doesn't pull TOO much, and pulls back to center decently. I don't have to fight my steering on the street or offroad, but then again my lift isn't enough to throw it out that badly.

Yes junkie, it seems that I really want to call Duff up later and have a chat. I'd want most of the parts from their kit. Need info about the coil PPI and pitman arm measurements. Doesn't seem like anyone around here has ran a full Duff kit before and wrote about it.

 

[4x4junkie]

There's a few guys on here running Duff kits, hopefully maybe one of them will chime in.
The James Duff 5.5" kit is no stranger to the too-short pitman arm fiasco though, so you'll still be left looking for some better steering options for it.

As for the solid-across tierod, no that won't work well, the distance between the two knuckles changes with the suspension's movement (and would cause massive change in the toe alignment).
Maybe do a search on the "Stonecrusher" style setup (years ago another user here "Snowthrower" built something similar as well). This seems like the easiest one to DIY (and should effectively solve a TTB tire wear issue), however I still see some people report bumpsteer with the setup. Others aren't so bothered by it as long as their tires have normal lifespans.
The K-link OTOH seems pretty good from a bumpsteer standpoint when it's set up correctly. To me it doesn't seem at all difficult to build (would be massively sturdy if built all out of DOM & 1-ton Dodge or Chevy TREs), though the fabbing of stuff certainly isn't anything new to me.

Your tierod being tilted back is nothing unusual. You'll find you can rock it back and forth by hand if you grab it & twist it.

 

[FritzTKatt]

Ah. I called Duff today and Chris answered the phone. He couldn't give me any information about coil PPI, pitman arm lengths or if their kits can be broken up. Said he should be able to give me a call tomorrow.

This I haven't searched at all, but here goes... Why dodge/chevy TRE's when we drive ford/mazda's?

 

[4x4junkie]

Why dodge/chevy TRE's when we drive ford/mazda's?

Those seem to be what the aftermarket supports when it comes to building anything custom. They have 7/8"-18 TPI threads for both left & right sides.
Our TREs are two different sizes and are metric (M22-1.5-R & M20-1.5-L), which no one makes threaded bungs for, and thread taps for those are next to impossible to find (for a reasonable price anyway).

They also have a different tapered stud size too, however RuffStuff Specialties sells a tapered insert so you only need to drill a straight 7/8" hole to mount the Chevy/Dodge TRE.

 

[4.0B2]

Junkie, a lot of good info here, as always from you. To the OP, Junkie is a lot of the reason I didn't SAS my B2. Now I have a d35-- 4.56 geared, aussie locker, f250 shock towers, superrunner k-link steering, 3.5" lift eb coils, custom extended radius arms with flex joints mounted to a custom RA mount/Trans crossmember, c-clip elim, manual hubs, and and Jeep JKS quick disconnects on the sway bar-- nicely put together front suspension. I need to get it out and flex it around and see what it'll do now.

I'd debated several times on making a DOM and 1 ton TRE K-link steering, just to do it... sell the used superrunner kit and just see what it would take to do it. But I don't need anything that extreme on my B2. I don't see where fabricating that kit would be to hard.

 

[FritzTKatt]

4.0, yes, Junkie seems to know his shit. I'm going to have to search for more K-link setups and hopefully some builds. The pics I've seen so far are poor quality and have already rusted or whatever so the parts aren't distinct. Fabricating it doesn't seem too hard at all either, but just pulling it out of my tailpipe and throwing it at a welder wont work so I will have to do some more research there.

Junkie, thanks for the clarification.

What materials are the superrunner kit made of? Anyone (not you, 4.0) beat the crap out of it and have stories to tell? Anyone baby it and have it break on you? Etc...

EDIT: found some good pics of the stone crusher. That setup is stupid simple, and with some searching into it, should more than easily be able to build one. Maybe I could get someone to send me measurements too (seems like you need to custom build each one though, for the minor differences)

 

[4x4junkie]

I've slightly bowed the tierods on my Superrunner kit twice now, they aren't very thick. The rest of the kit has been fine though (I did beef up the idler arm and it's bracket a bit).
IIRC, the centerlink is made from 1.5" OD .250 wall tube. Not sure if it's DOM or HREW. The centerlink is pretty sturdy, it's the idler arm & it's bracket that could use a couple gussets. Also, the centerlink TRE is welded in (dumb), but isn't hard to grind the weld out and replace it with a threaded insert (or just weld another TRE in if you're in a hurry). So far I've had no issue with the welded TRE on either of mine.

I just bought some Dodge TREs and bungs & tubing and will be replacing my BII's tierods with those.


Thanks 4.0. I just try to be honest and helpful is all.

 

[FritzTKatt]

Ok that's good. Does it look like the the tie rods (not the ends) could be strengthened themselves? For the $500 or so after shipping I'd want to make it bullet proof.

I'd fabricate my own stonecrusher or order one but for the wait time or fab time it would cost me more than to buy one, considering this is my DD. Not that I couldn't borrow a vehicle, but bolt-on is pretty much my only option for now. And I'm not going to buy a beater for 4 months till I ship out, haha.

Junkie, I'd rather you call it like you see it and give me the cold hard truth than sugar coat shit on me and then when something's f'd up we both look like jackasses. Most likely why you've proven very reputable.

Chris at duff didn't call me back yesterday, so on Monday I'll give them a ring again. The main thing is if they would break up the kit for me since I don't need the pitman arm (need superlift).

Although, why do you need the superlift pitman arm? If their arm is to support the OE drag link, and their kit, why wouldn't any other arm designed for the OE drag link work? Studying the pictures, their arm seems like less of a drop, than say a RC 4". So if that were the case, I'd likely get better performance to not use their arm. Unless the idler arm design requires that specific amount of drop given by their pitman...

Can a steering stabilizer be used on the superrunner kit? If it's even necessary?
Does Anthony (SC) have templates or measurements on hand so one could just call him and say "I want one for my 94 ranger with a D35"? I imagine he has built quite a few. Saw somewhere that the SC setup new was only about $300 and seems superior to a K-link.

Did that make sense at all?

 

[4.0B2]

Chris at duff didn't call me back yesterday, so on Monday I'll give them a ring again. The main thing is if they would break up the kit for me since I don't need the pitman arm (need superlift).
I imagine the JD drop pitman arm would work for reasons I listed below
Although, why do you need the superlift pitman arm? If their arm is to support the OE drag link, and their kit, why wouldn't any other arm designed for the OE drag link work? Studying the pictures, their arm seems like less of a drop, than say a RC 4". So if that were the case, I'd likely get better performance to not use their arm. Unless the idler arm design requires that specific amount of drop given by their pitman...
actually all 4" lift kits come with a drop pitman arm that only drops about 2"... I'm using my superrunner steering with the RC drop pitman arm, it works just fine. You just need a drop pitman for a 4" kit b/c that what will match the idler arm for the superrunner kit
Can a steering stabilizer be used on the superrunner kit? If it's even necessary?steering stabilizers are used to mask a real issue, if you're steering is tight, all parts are good, etc you won't need one ever
Does Anthony (SC) have templates or measurements on hand so one could just call him and say "I want one for my 94 ranger with a D35"? I imagine he has built quite a few. Saw somewhere that the SC setup new was only about $300 and seems superior to a K-link.
I would assume so... But I've never dealt with SC so I'll let someone else answer that for you.
Did that make sense at all?

look at the red stuff I added

 

[FritzTKatt]

Ah. superlift just means you need A drop pitman arm. They made it sound like you can't mate the steering setup with any other pitman arm. Which didn't make sense at all... EDIT: saves me a few bucks either way, already have the 2" RC pitman arm on. And saves me the stress of getting it off... I broke a 1/2" breaker bar to torque the nut on all the way. Gave up with about 1/16" left to go. Figure it's not going anywhere when the damn thing is THAT tight.

That's one thing I was hoping for an answer out of Duff for too, the amount of drop on the arm supplied in the kit.

Suppose I'll have to send Anthony an email. Will have to check legality of heims in NJ though. Not that they care anyway in regular inspection. They don't know what a tie rod end looks like...