Frame stacking

[livetoride21]

Alright so I have an interesting Idea, that I know has been done in the past for mud bogging. Last year I stripped a 4x4 ranger with the intention of using all the 4x4 parts to convert a 2x4 in the future. I wanted the ttb mounting brackets and stuff so just cut out the whole front area of the frame from tip to about the cab.
My original Idea was to cut and turn the beams and weld in all the mounting brackets for 4x4. The cutting and turning I'm not too worried about but getting all the mounting points correct and straight could be a pain. So my idea was seeing as I have the whole front cradle area, was to align that whole subframe, weld it up, then box it in with 3/16" steel. this way I would be able to get clearance for up to about 38s if i really wanted to (not planning on it, only planning on 35s or 36s) and it should be resonably strong. I figure using some xj coils to the stock coil buckets and putting detaches on the sway bars i could get some great flex as well.
I'm wondering if anyone has had experience doing this type of lift? it would only be in the front, the back would get a 64" leaf conversion for lots of flex and about 4" of lift.
Now I know there are a lot of negative threads on this topic elseware, with noone actually stating why or how its dangerous when done correctly. i.e. boxed in, and braced correctly. So I emphasize , PLEASE, if you're going to post, please post useful information. Please don't flame, I'm just trying to get some opinions, not just people saying its ghetto-rigging. I don't see any reason it would be weaker if it was to be plated and x braced on the inside.

Thanks, hope to get some opinions on the subject.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I'm not sure what you're suggesting? Are you welding the 'new' front sub-frame to the 'old' back half of the frame? Or?

Richard

 

[Sunk]

I'm not sure what you're suggesting? Are you welding the 'new' front sub-frame to the 'old' back half of the frame? Or?

Richard

Yeah, neither am I. But based on the title of the thread, no.

 

[Captain Ledd]

I got the impression he was welding the front chunk of the 4x4 frame under the existing 4x2 frame, thus gaining lift. And then putting Chevy leafs on the rear.

For a mug bog trailer queen? ehhh... maybe.

For ANY kind of road use? no.

The problem lies in the steering, your linkages will be all sorts of jacked up. The kind of jacked up meaning there is no way to do be "done properly". Bracing is not the problem, steel is pretty strong. It's suspension geometry and steering geometry. By the time you do "do it right" (or as right as can be), there's no reason you couldn't have done a traditional lift, saved yourself money (and yes it WILL take money to do it right) and a ton of time and headaches. This is the reason no one does it anymore.

Buy a 6" lift kit, or do a sas (I swear one member on here also sells 4" lift brackets to fit 2wd frames *edit: that will convert it to 4wd*, then do a budget spring lift for the extra 2"). Trim the fenders for 36's. Drive the piss out of it.

 

[livetoride21]

In reply to "alwaysFlOoReD" and "Sunk" , "Captain Ledd" hit the nail right on the head, as that was what I was thinking of doing. It was just an Idea I was toying around with instead of using shotty lift brackets. I was going to have the steering box on the lower frame, as I have all the steering linkage from the 4x4, all I would haveto do is do some fitting to run the steering column down to there. So how would this change the steering for the worse, as it is essentially a stock system? Hope you can elaborate. (not defending the idea, I just want some straight answers, and so far I've gotten a lot more info in one post here than I did searching all the flaming on the web. )

 

[Toreadorranger]

No. If I had a rolled up newspaper Id smack you in the head with it.

 

[bobbywalter]

In reply to "alwaysFlOoReD" and "Sunk" , "Captain Ledd" hit the nail right on the head, as that was what I was thinking of doing. It was just an Idea I was toying around with instead of using shotty lift brackets. I was going to have the steering box on the lower frame, as I have all the steering linkage from the 4x4, all I would haveto do is do some fitting to run the steering column down to there. So how would this change the steering for the worse, as it is essentially a stock system? Hope you can elaborate. (not defending the idea, I just want some straight answers, and so far I've gotten a lot more info in one post here than I did searching all the flaming on the web. )

doubling that section of frame would work fine with sensible cuttin/fitting. steering from cab to box is pretty workable as well. basically end up with higher ride height and stock steering-- pivot geometry....stock wheel travel...

and it would totally suck for off road use. the huge tires would be too much for the axles anyway....and huge tires would be the only reason i see to do it..


a 4 in body lift would work better really if all you want is stock suspension and tire clearance.

 

[Boggin]

In reply to "alwaysFlOoReD" and "Sunk" , "Captain Ledd" hit the nail right on the head, as that was what I was thinking of doing. It was just an Idea I was toying around with instead of using shotty lift brackets. I was going to have the steering box on the lower frame, as I have all the steering linkage from the 4x4, all I would haveto do is do some fitting to run the steering column down to there. So how would this change the steering for the worse, as it is essentially a stock system? Hope you can elaborate. (not defending the idea, I just want some straight answers, and so far I've gotten a lot more info in one post here than I did searching all the flaming on the web. )

I would much rather use lift brackets (even rough countrys for christ sakes!) then to have stacked front half of the frame.. Thats a terrible idea. Please stop thinking now.

 

[bobbywalter]

seriously.....


how could a properly stacked frame be weaker then nose bleed high lift brackets on a ttb system?

no way...

no way you can get 8 in lift, with the regular method, and it be stronger then what i can do with some sectioning.

8 or more in of lift is retarded....this i wont defend or deny...

but...for the retard that desires such...they wont miss great wheel travel anyway now will they... and it nets a stronger setup.

 

[Boggin]

i wouldnt trust 8" ttb lift brackets either.. i'd go to about a 4" but any more then that and i think its time for a straight axle. those big ass brackets add too much leverage i figure.. but i'm really not feeling the thought of stacked frames. like said earlier if it was like the mud trucks you see that just get trailered to the bog and trailered back home then it probably wouldnt be as bad. but for something that sees any amount of pavement, i dont want any part of it

 

[livetoride21]

doubling that section of frame would work fine with sensible cuttin/fitting. steering from cab to box is pretty workable as well. basically end up with higher ride height and stock steering-- pivot geometry....stock wheel travel...

and it would totally suck for off road use. the huge tires would be too much for the axles anyway....and huge tires would be the only reason i see to do it..


a 4 in body lift would work better really if all you want is stock suspension and tire clearance.

Well the main reason for the thought was the fact that 2wd rangers are plentiful and cheap in my area, and I have all the parts to swap in 4x4. So I figured I would get about a 6" lift out of stacking the front frame, instead of using a flexy body lift. and then I could easily get some 35s in there. and also use some low spring rate coils like those for the xjs mounted to the stock buckets. I'll mostly be doing muddy trails with a little bit of roots and rocks, not big boulder fields. I don't live in rock country, so I don't need to be able to flex sky high. But it seems to be the general concensis that this is a bad Idea, so I'll probably just try and find a 4x4 ranger, and cut and turn the beams , like I was originally thinking.
I wasn't trying take a hack way around things, just simply looking at other possible options, as it still doesnt seem all that crazy to me, considering budget lift brackets don't net you any increase in clearance anyways, and screw up your steering the majority of the time.

 

[bobbywalter]

i wouldnt trust 8" ttb lift brackets either.. i'd go to about a 4" but any more then that and i think its time for a straight axle. those big ass brackets add too much leverage i figure.. but i'm really not feeling the thought of stacked frames. like said earlier if it was like the mud trucks you see that just get trailered to the bog and trailered back home then it probably wouldnt be as bad. but for something that sees any amount of pavement, i dont want any part of it

well. whats rolling around in my tiny little mind as to what sectioning/stacking consists of is likely different then what you are envisioning.


i would incorporate a d44 setup with 8 lug the minimum for brakes and bearings for such height past the decent 4 in acceptable standard you mention..if ttb was desired then custom sectioning would be fine really....anything over 35's on a d35/28 for a driver is a bad idea.


considering a d44 or d60 leaf swap can be done in a day easily....

frame stacking is beyond piss waste if your being sensible

exploring the options and pros and cons will hopefully net this guy the proper setup....effective...and cost effective.

 

[bobbywalter]

Well the main reason for the thought was the fact that 2wd rangers are plentiful and cheap in my area, and I have all the parts to swap in 4x4. So I figured I would get about a 6" lift out of stacking the front frame, instead of using a flexy body lift. and then I could easily get some 35s in there. and also use some low spring rate coils like those for the xjs mounted to the stock buckets. I'll mostly be doing muddy trails with a little bit of roots and rocks, not big boulder fields. I don't live in rock country, so I don't need to be able to flex sky high. But it seems to be the general concensis that this is a bad Idea, so I'll probably just try and find a 4x4 ranger, and cut and turn the beams , like I was originally thinking.
I wasn't trying take a hack way around things, just simply looking at other possible options, as it still doesnt seem all that crazy to me, considering budget lift brackets don't net you any increase in clearance anyways, and screw up your steering the majority of the time.

in this case...you can shoot the gap by simply lowering the k member a bit...

then maybe go to a over rail type box...



personally...what i would do if i were to want a d35 or d44 ttb..

i would install the d44 or d35 k member...

run 150 or e150 radius arms with relocated radius arm mounts

150 springs 2 in over drop pitman and trim the fenders


very stout...very cost effective setup.

i beat the holy living hell out of that setup for years and installed it on other vehicles...works great.

 

[4.0B2]

i think, for the work and time involved in this... you'd be better doing a 1-ton sas and have a lot stronger setup... what you're saying would work in theory and if done right it might MIGHT might be safe for offroad use. but if you're talking that big tires and stuff you want more axle anyway...

so my vote is to sas it w/ leafs or coils and radius arms... and do it right the first time. i could see where your thought comes into play at.. i've seen people try to do a full frame under the orignal frame before for more lift... it turns into basically a REALLY tall body lift... and its dumb. it doesn't work all that well.


just do everyone a safety favor and sas it and do it right.

 

[livetoride21]

in this case...you can shoot the gap by simply lowering the k member a bit...

then maybe go to a over rail type box...



personally...what i would do if i were to want a d35 or d44 ttb..

i would install the d44 or d35 k member...

run 150 or e150 radius arms with relocated radius arm mounts

150 springs 2 in over drop pitman and trim the fenders


very stout...very cost effective setup.

i beat the holy living hell out of that setup for years and installed it on other vehicles...works great.

Alright, sounds like a pretty budget plan. sounds like a very stiff setup however? And I'm not sure what you mean by "you can shoot the gap by simply lowering the k member a bit...
then maybe go to a over rail type box..." ?