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HID install in Projector lights


UrbanRedneckKid

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I thought it was always illegal...if a vehicle came without HID from the factory you're not allowed to install HID.

I'm hoping I'm wrong here, because if I am it means I can install HID on my Mustang. I've wanted to for awhile but always thought it was illegal.
They are illeagal unless factory installed, according to NJ state laws mine are illeagal.

You will notice I also have an HID in the non-projector part of my lights, and also that I had to modify the setup and truck wiring to fit them, thus the light housings were not "made" for HIDs.

BTW, these lights are awesome. I'll never go back to a filiment type bulb, ever. I'll take the $45 fine from the Smokeys if I have to. I also somehow managed to get through the vigorous NJ State inspection with them too, guess they missed em...
 


Beanmachine7000

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I don't think it is illegal here as long as you have correct projectors... I know cops here just hold up a piece of white paper to check the color temp of them (there is only a certain range that is DOT legal) and you can easily tell if they have projector housings or not... They love to write tickets for them here...
 

UrbanRedneckKid

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I don't think it is illegal here as long as you have correct projectors... I know cops here just hold up a piece of white paper to check the color temp of them (there is only a certain range that is DOT legal) and you can easily tell if they have projector housings or not... They love to write tickets for them here...
Interesting, and being that your from TN, will out of staters like me, have an issue with that, in regards the TRS10 meet?

What is the limit on color?
 

Beanmachine7000

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I would say you might, because it's DOT spec, not TN spec... The 10-year is also about 4 hours away from me, cops there might be more lenient... They really like to bust guys for stuff like that here, and license plate lights not working and easy stuff... I think if you go anything over 8000K color temp it's not a DOT approved color... I'd have to look it up again, there is a certain color range that is DOT approved...
 

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I like this write-up. I just had an unfortunate accident where my truck was backed into :annoyed:and I get to replace my headlights. SO now I will be modifying my aftermarket Ranger lights:shok:, installing those H3 lights and making them fit my 240SX for a custom headlight conversion . . . :woot:
 

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For those questioning legality, this may help "shed some light" on the subject, from NHTSA:

Dear Mr. Hodson:

Your letter of December 16, 1999, addressed to Ms. Nancy McFadden, the General Counsel of the Department of Transportation, has been forwarded to this Office for reply. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is the component of the Department responsible for issuing, interpreting, and enforcing the Federal motor vehicle safety standards. I am sorry that our response to your letter has been delayed.

You relate that a client of yours was charged with operating a motor vehicle with improper headlamps, specifically that the headlamp bulbs have a blue tint to them. The bulbs are replacement bulbs, and were installed by the previous owner of the vehicle. Your review of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108 Lamps, Reflective Devices and Associated Equipment has led you to conclude that the only permissible colors for headlamps are white and yellow. Yet you understand that some cars have this color of headlamp as original equipment, and you report seeing replacement headlamps, with a similar tint, that are stamped DOT "which presumably reflects approval by your agency," and packaging stating they are legal in all states.

When we revise Standard No. 108 in the near future, we will clearly state that the color of headlamps must be white. The interpretation I am providing, of course, is for the standard as it is presently written. Paragraph S7 of Standard No. 108 sets forth the requirements for headlamps. In various places, S7 specifies that headlamps must meet Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J1383 APR85. This refers to SAE Recommended Practice J1383 APR 85 "Performance Requirements for Motor Vehicle Headlamps." Of particular interest to you will be the provisions of S7.5 of Standard No. 108 covering replaceable bulb headlamps, the type used by your client. S7.5(c) in pertinent part requires replaceable bulb headlamps to meet "performance requirements of section 5.1.4 of SAE J1383 APR85." This version of SAE J1383 appears in the SAE Handbooks for the years 1986 through 1990 when J1383 APR85 was revised. Section 5.1.4 of SAE J1383 APR85 states that "The color of the headlamp shall be white as specified in SAE J578." This refers to SAE Standard J578c, February 1977 "Color Specification for Electric Signal Lighting Devices" (see S5.1.5 of Standard No. 108). This version appeared only in the 1978 SAE Handbook.

SAE J578c defines white by blue, yellow, green, red, and purple boundaries within a chromaticity diagram. Thus, it is possible to design a headlamp that emits a light that approaches the blue boundary and is perceived as having a blue tint but which nevertheless remains within the boundaries that define "white." These headlamps would comply with the color requirements of Standard No. 108. Without an actual test of your client's headlamp bulbs, it is not possible to say whether the color emitted remains within the boundaries of "white."

A headlamp's replaceable light sources themselves, whether new or replacement equipment (see S5.8.1) must meet the requirements of S7.7 of Standard No. 108 and bear the DOT symbol that represents the light source manufacturer's certification that the light source meets all applicable requirements of the standard. Though not specifically stated in S7.7, which contains no reference to 5.1.4 of SAE J1383 APR85, these bulbs obviously must project a white light in order for the headlamps to comply when the bulbs are installed. Thus, we regard the color white as one of the performance requirements of replacement replaceable light sources covered by the DOT certification. That is why you see replacement bulb packages (presumably containing DOT-certified light sources) stating that the bulbs are legal in all states.

Please note that the DOT symbol does not represent our "approval." We have no authority to approve or disapprove motor vehicles or motor vehicle equipment. Under 49 U.S.C. 30115, the manufacturer must certify conformance of its product, and we play no role in the certification process.

If you have any questions, you may refer them to Taylor Vinson of this Office (202-366-5263).

Sincerely,
Frank Seales, Jr.
Chief Counsel
ref:108
d.5/4/00
 

Beanmachine7000

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For those questioning legality, this may help "shed some light" on the subject, from NHTSA:

Dear Mr. Hodson:

Your letter of December 16, 1999, addressed to Ms. Nancy McFadden, the General Counsel of the Department of Transportation, has been forwarded to this Office for reply. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is the component of the Department responsible for issuing, interpreting, and enforcing the Federal motor vehicle safety standards. I am sorry that our response to your letter has been delayed.

You relate that a client of yours was charged with operating a motor vehicle with improper headlamps, specifically that the headlamp bulbs have a blue tint to them. The bulbs are replacement bulbs, and were installed by the previous owner of the vehicle. Your review of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108 Lamps, Reflective Devices and Associated Equipment has led you to conclude that the only permissible colors for headlamps are white and yellow. Yet you understand that some cars have this color of headlamp as original equipment, and you report seeing replacement headlamps, with a similar tint, that are stamped DOT "which presumably reflects approval by your agency," and packaging stating they are legal in all states.

When we revise Standard No. 108 in the near future, we will clearly state that the color of headlamps must be white. The interpretation I am providing, of course, is for the standard as it is presently written. Paragraph S7 of Standard No. 108 sets forth the requirements for headlamps. In various places, S7 specifies that headlamps must meet Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J1383 APR85. This refers to SAE Recommended Practice J1383 APR 85 "Performance Requirements for Motor Vehicle Headlamps." Of particular interest to you will be the provisions of S7.5 of Standard No. 108 covering replaceable bulb headlamps, the type used by your client. S7.5(c) in pertinent part requires replaceable bulb headlamps to meet "performance requirements of section 5.1.4 of SAE J1383 APR85." This version of SAE J1383 appears in the SAE Handbooks for the years 1986 through 1990 when J1383 APR85 was revised. Section 5.1.4 of SAE J1383 APR85 states that "The color of the headlamp shall be white as specified in SAE J578." This refers to SAE Standard J578c, February 1977 "Color Specification for Electric Signal Lighting Devices" (see S5.1.5 of Standard No. 108). This version appeared only in the 1978 SAE Handbook.

SAE J578c defines white by blue, yellow, green, red, and purple boundaries within a chromaticity diagram. Thus, it is possible to design a headlamp that emits a light that approaches the blue boundary and is perceived as having a blue tint but which nevertheless remains within the boundaries that define "white." These headlamps would comply with the color requirements of Standard No. 108. Without an actual test of your client's headlamp bulbs, it is not possible to say whether the color emitted remains within the boundaries of "white."

A headlamp's replaceable light sources themselves, whether new or replacement equipment (see S5.8.1) must meet the requirements of S7.7 of Standard No. 108 and bear the DOT symbol that represents the light source manufacturer's certification that the light source meets all applicable requirements of the standard. Though not specifically stated in S7.7, which contains no reference to 5.1.4 of SAE J1383 APR85, these bulbs obviously must project a white light in order for the headlamps to comply when the bulbs are installed. Thus, we regard the color white as one of the performance requirements of replacement replaceable light sources covered by the DOT certification. That is why you see replacement bulb packages (presumably containing DOT-certified light sources) stating that the bulbs are legal in all states.

Please note that the DOT symbol does not represent our "approval." We have no authority to approve or disapprove motor vehicles or motor vehicle equipment. Under 49 U.S.C. 30115, the manufacturer must certify conformance of its product, and we play no role in the certification process.

If you have any questions, you may refer them to Taylor Vinson of this Office (202-366-5263).

Sincerely,
Frank Seales, Jr.
Chief Counsel
ref:108
d.5/4/00

I had read that before, but I can't seem to find any definite info on what point the blue tint lights are considered illegal... For some reason I think it's 8000K or above is illegal, but I can't find anything to prove it :icon_confused:
 

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So anyway.. mine came in the mail today.........



Aint she purdy? And get this.. the whole set up..the headlight housings with the addition of the H3 projectors, and the clear corners..52 Bucks including shipping..from 3000 miles away mind you!!

God I love EBAY!!

Now for my headache... the set screws are dirty little @%*?+& !! Either the heads stripped or the plastic sockets broke. Not on all.. just one or two of the prexisting hardware that was on my truck. Lights came with new hardware but I cant remove the old ones. So it's rather hard to aim them at the moment. Once I get that squared away i'll wire up the projectors.

I'm still using my old 9007's but man what a difference with the clear plastic. Now.. if I could only get the light of my sneakers I might be able to see where I'm going :annoyed:
 

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Can you post a picture up of the beam pattern of the HIDs against a flat surface like a garage at night time? I'm thinking about ordering the same kit but just want to make sure the projectors can be adjusted low enough not to blind on coming traffic. Thanks!
 

UrbanRedneckKid

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Can you post a picture up of the beam pattern of the HIDs against a flat surface like a garage at night time? I'm thinking about ordering the same kit but just want to make sure the projectors can be adjusted low enough not to blind on coming traffic. Thanks!
I don't have a pic, but the projectors do aim the way you want them to.
Although I use mine like an a$$hole, when I do use my projectors, they make great low beams. They are low enough not to blind other drivers, and not glare in rain or fog.
 

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do the lows stay on when you have the highs on? im thinking about getting some from ebay but was going to use xenons for the highs and didnt know if they would be brighter than the HIDs? i think they make kits for highs & lows at the same time, but im not for sure
 

UrbanRedneckKid

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do the lows stay on when you have the highs on? im thinking about getting some from ebay but was going to use xenons for the highs and didnt know if they would be brighter than the HIDs? i think they make kits for highs & lows at the same time, but im not for sure
Currently my lows don't stay on with the highs, but I am planning on rewiring them that way.

Also there is no way xenon bulbs would be brighter than HIDs.
Some of the best Xenon bulbs put only out 4300K.
My HIDs are 6000K, and I've seen them as high as 18000K
In retrospect, stock bulbs are somewhere around 1800-2000K
 

CSyd77

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Currently my lows don't stay on with the highs, but I am planning on rewiring them that way.

Also there is no way xenon bulbs would be brighter than HIDs.
Some of the best Xenon bulbs put only out 4300K.
My HIDs are 6000K, and I've seen them as high as 18000K
In retrospect, stock bulbs are somewhere around 1800-2000K
thats what i was thinking. when u do wire it can u give me some pointers?
 

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