Hypocritical . . . . .

[PetesPonies]

to draw a line in sand in regards to catalytic converters and allow postings on engine swaps that would fall under the same Federal Emission laws that removing a converter would.

 

[snoranger]

Go start your own forum.... Then you can make your rules the way you see fit.

 

[PetesPonies]

very mature comment there . . . congrats

 

[snoranger]

very mature comment there . . . congrats

Its very simple. The boss made a rule. If its too complicated for you, let me help you. You can:

1) Whine about it.
2) Go start your own forum and set up the rules the way you want them.
3) Come up with a good argument as to why it should be allowed. (Show some emission levels before and after cat removal vs. engine swap emissions changes to prove that its not as bad as everyone thinks.) Maybe you can get the management to change their minds.

4) Follow the rules, and dont discuss it.

Pick one.

 

[PetesPonies]

See a proper comment would be to respond on the merits of my post. If my facts are inaccurate, then show me. To go off in another vain, not responding to my assertion shows, to me, that you cannot refute what I said.

 

[snoranger]

I wouldnt argue with you about the fact that there are quite a few engine swaps on the site that are against the law, you're right, there are.

Plenty of people have complained about this rule, no one has succeeded it getting it changed. You've "been there, done that", you should know there are somethings in life that are a waste of time. This is one of them.

 

[Gotta_gofast]

What does engine swaps have to do with removing a catalytic converter?

Plenty of people in pollution controlled areas have used the same model year or newer model year engine in their vehicle swap and have passed their state's requirements for emissions... but it is strictly illegal everywhere to remove your catalytic converter.

However, you can always replace your catalytic converter with a same model year or newer model year cataylitc converter.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I sorta agree with what you're saying, BUT
as mentioned; it's the rules

one reason that comes to my mind is it's really easy to remove a cat, it takes no brains and most that do don't understand how and why they work and don't give a shit about the air I breathe. On the other hand, it's not so easy doing an engine swap, and the person that does one successfully is much more likely to understand what he is doing [creating less pollution than normally would be emitted] and IMO more likely to try to follow the laws of the land.
Soooo, cat removal is outlawed and engine swaps are tolerated.

Richard

 

[adsm08]

Federal law says that the swap must meet one of two requirements.

It must

A) match a certified configuration of the same or newer chassis. This means that if I rip out my 2.9 and replace it with a 4.0 (which I am going to do) I am ok under Federal law. The same with my current setup. I have an 89 engine, 88 computer an 88-92 cat in my 87 truck. This meets Federal requirements (I matched a newer model year to the letter), but not the requirements for my state as the use of completely 88+ parts deletes the EGR system (the parts must be present and appear like they could function). Under this rule the people who swap carbed V8 engines into their post 87 trucks are in violation because 87 was the last year a carb was used on any Ranger engine.

or

B) It must be proven that the emissions of the vehicle have not been adversely affected. The statute indicates that this would require a proper test of the swapped vehicle, however there are ways to approximate this.

For example, the Explorer was still roughly the same chassis as the Ranger. There was some divergence over the years, but they are still the same weight class, still both considered "light duty trucks" by their manufacturer. So swapping the 5.0 out of a 98 Explorer into you 92 Ranger and keeping everything as it would have been in the Explorer could be argued to meet this requirement without performing an actual test.



On the other hand, cutting out the cat is cutting out the cat and can only have one effect on emissions.


I'm currently building a 65 Mustang for my mom. Am I required to have cats? Not by a long shot. They weren't even put into use until 10 years after the car was built. Am I gonna use them when I build the exhaust? You bet.

 

[bobbywalter]

to draw a line in sand in regards to catalytic converters and allow postings on engine swaps that would fall under the same Federal Emission laws that removing a converter would.

your right. no arguement from me.

but hold the bar high regardless and struggle to meet the goal...(or pretend to struggle to meet the goal)

at least if i am understanding you correctly.

Federal law says that the swap must meet one of two requirements.

It must

A) match a certified configuration of the same or newer chassis. This means that if I rip out my 2.9 and replace it with a 4.0 (which I am going to do) I am ok under Federal law. The same with my current setup. I have an 89 engine, 88 computer an 88-92 cat in my 87 truck. This meets Federal requirements (I matched a newer model year to the letter), but not the requirements for my state as the use of completely 88+ parts deletes the EGR system (the parts must be present and appear like they could function). Under this rule the people who swap carbed V8 engines into their post 87 trucks are in violation because 87 was the last year a carb was used on any Ranger engine.

or

B) It must be proven that the emissions of the vehicle have not been adversely affected. The statute indicates that this would require a proper test of the swapped vehicle, however there are ways to approximate this.

For example, the Explorer was still roughly the same chassis as the Ranger. There was some divergence over the years, but they are still the same weight class, still both considered "light duty trucks" by their manufacturer. So swapping the 5.0 out of a 98 Explorer into you 92 Ranger and keeping everything as it would have been in the Explorer could be argued to meet this requirement without performing an actual test.



On the other hand, cutting out the cat is cutting out the cat and can only have one effect on emissions.


I'm currently building a 65 Mustang for my mom. Am I required to have cats? Not by a long shot. They weren't even put into use until 10 years after the car was built. Am I gonna use them when I build the exhaust? You bet.

its illegal by federal standards to put a v8 in a ranger PERIOD.

just that farggin simple. the chassis was never oem offered with a v8. theres some fannagling post v8 explorer....but its a non issue for many reasons.

yet we all do it and many these days are emission compliant regardless...


to even have a forum discussing such lawbreaking is just rude. almost as evil as owning a gun. what kind of douchebag owns a gun??

hows that for hypocrisy?



but....if you are an american in america there are several workarounds.

for the sake of argument its home build personal use hotrod type of titling that gets you by most issues and back to basic dot ruling. as in you are not manufacturing for profit to the general public...you are manufacturing for personal use.

....thats not the proper term and every state has its own rules but any smart hotrodder skates through that shit with ease.

getting insurance on custom titled rigs has its own issues though. often its $$$$


but, thats an ever dwindling option. joining sema, brc, etc is something you need to do if you like freedom....theres no end to the fawktards that want to take it all away.

 

[adsm08]

y


its illegal by federal standards to put a v8 in a ranger PERIOD.

Disagreed.

For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty eng~ne into a different light-duty vehicle by any
person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all
emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of
the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that
emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technical
information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle
manufacturer.

Basically, if you can prove that the tail-pipe emissions are the same or better it is allowed, as long as the engine is from the same or newer model year as the chassis it is being put in. You have to retain all OEM emissions controls though, so EGR, EFI, cats, AIR, all of that fun stuff.

So if I put a 5.0 in my truck, drop an air pump and HE cats to it and show a before and after tail-pipe test that show it is no worse than it was before, I AM legal by federal standard. That's how I read that.

 

[bobbywalter]

i dont have the whole deal on a working pc right now. but as of 08....and thats not the language i am familiar you have there... it states plainly 6cyl 4cyl 8cyl for a chassis line and engine family. if it was not equipped with a certain configuration its in violation. but thats for as manufactured.


and my crate cobra spec 5.0 did not produce more emissions overall then the hi mile 2.9 it replaced. for procedure at the time in 95. there are different standards of course for different areas.

 

[bobbywalter]

The appropriate source for technical
information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehicle
manufacturer.

its based on that.


pretty simple.

 

[adsm08]

You might have me on this one due to revision. The letter I took that from is dated 13-March, 1991.

 

[bobbywalter]

i worked on allot of swaps from 87-07....started hard way with efi in 93.


few had emission compliance as a concern in any form. most were offroad/race.

inevitably there were issues when wrecks occurred. so i learned the hard way about liability as well. especially when it comes to insurance fraud for what is considered as manufactured.