Lets talk about pumps for a bit (hydro assist/Standard box)

[Kage]

I’ve been doing quite a bit of reading (here and on pirate) about what people are (or have) used for higher volume/pressure Power Steering pumps. Unfortunately, there seems to be quite a few gaps in the information that is turning up in my searches. I’d like to fill some of those gaps for my own selfish reasons.

Where I’m currently at is that my stock Ford setup ('94 4.0 Stock Ford Pump, Box, and an added cooler) are barely adequate on the trail. When the font end locked up with my Detroit, it was a bear to get it to turn (I could still turn, but It got old after awhile, this is also rocking 37” tall tires). With my new lunch box in the front, I’m sure that it’ll be worse as the Spartan locker seems to want to lock up tighter/sooner than the Detroit did.

For simplicity sake, I’d like to try to make things work without going down the hydro assist road. If it turns out I need to do hydro assist to get to where I want to be, then so be it. But I’d much rather not add the complication as with my luck, it would just bite me in the butt later on.

Going back to the old threads, these appear to be the common options:
- Drill out the stock Ford pump for more flow (never see a mention of the drill size?)

- Cardone 20-6244 pump, which has been discontinued for some time now.

- Saginaw style pump, which requires bracket modifications to work, or a new bracket built if you can’t find the horseshoe shaped bracket. If anyone has the measurements for the horseshoe bracket, I’d love to have those.

- AGR sells a direct replacement pump that puts out 1500 psi (stock is in the 1100 psi range). However, the rep I spoke with mentioned that this pump probably would not have enough volume to handle a hydro assist setup. So this could be money wasted if I were to step up to hydro assist and needed another pump. Going by the recent threads I’m finding, there may be some quality issues with the AGR pumps, and it may not be that much of an upgrade over stock either.

- I need to put a phone call into PSC tomorrow, but it appears that they might have the horseshoe brackets we need to rock the Saginaw style of pumps (link).

As I mentioned before, I’d like to use over the counter stuff as much as possible as the ‘custom’ stuff seems to bite me when I’m out in the middle of nowhere. I’d settle for a little less power, if it means I can pick up the parts in BFE if need be.

Am I over looking any other options?

What setup are you running, and how do you like it?

 

[CHKNFKR]

My first though was full hydro, but you want to be able to pick shit up wherever you happen to be and are hesitant to even go hydro assist...

If thats where you're at, get the higher pressure pump and drill out the gear or upgrade to a bigger gear thats designed to push big tires.

 

[Sasquatch_Ryda]

Once you start getting to bigger tires like that with a locker in the front you should really be looking into hydro assist. It takes all the stress off your stock box and frame mount and will allow you to steer those big tires with ease.

I'm going to be running 38" TSLs on a Grizzly locked D60 front and I'm almost positive I'll be needing to up grade to a hydro assist kit. I've been looking into the Trail Gear kit.

http://www.trailgear.ca/default.cfm?fa=products&ProdCategoryID=175

 

[Kage]

My first though was full hydro, but you want to be able to pick shit up wherever you happen to be and are hesitant to even go hydro assist...

If thats where you're at, get the higher pressure pump and drill out the gear or upgrade to a bigger gear thats designed to push big tires.

I forgot to mention that the truck is staying 'street legal' so I can't run full hydro. I'm not dead set on not going assist either, but I want to see what my options are.

The big question though is what pump to use? Ideally I would just buy a pump that will have the ablity to run an assist ram if I need it to in the future. I'm just not sure what pump that would be.

Once you start getting to bigger tires like that with a locker in the front you should really be looking into hydro assist. It takes all the stress off your stock box and frame mount and will allow you to steer those big tires with ease.

I'm going to be running 38" TSLs on a Grizzly locked D60 front and I'm almost positive I'll be needing to up grade to a hydro assist kit. I've been looking into the Trail Gear kit.

http://www.trailgear.ca/default.cfm?fa=products&ProdCategoryID=175

Thanks for the link, and that's not a bad price for the kit. But It still leaves the 'what pump' question unanswered.


I've done some more reading as well, and it looking more like I'll just have to make a Sag pump work, unless there's another option floating around out there that I'm missing.

If I were to go with the Sag pump, is there preference as to which one? Or are they all about the same?

 

[Sasquatch_Ryda]

I know lots of guys are using the stock ranger pumps with hydro assist without issues.

 

[Kage]

I know lots of guys are using the stock ranger pumps with hydro assist without issues.

Really?!? Are they doing anything to the pumps?

What size rams are they using?

Any issues with the Ram speed?

Going by the posts I'm seeing, it seems as though half of them say the Ford Pump is junk and can't keep up, and the other half say it isn't too bad.

While I'm not racing the thing around, I'd hate for the ram to move too slow to cause me issues when I'm in traffic.

 

[Sasquatch_Ryda]

I think a lot of it has to do with the ram size. A 1.5" bore ram seems to give the best steering 'feel'. Most only notice the slower response at an idle.

Finding a pump that has more output will definitely help. I think a lot of chevies used the saginaw pump that looks like a cam of ham. Seems to be the popular choice.

 

[Sasquatch_Ryda]

Here ya go:

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19310

 

[Kage]

I think a lot of it has to do with the ram size. A 1.5" bore ram seems to give the best steering 'feel'. Most only notice the slower response at an idle.

Finding a pump that has more output will definitely help. I think a lot of chevies used the saginaw pump that looks like a cam of ham. Seems to be the popular choice.

That's what I'm hearing through the 'net as well. Plus the GM saginaw's can be had for under $50, where as lots of the other pumps are around $150 or so. I don't mind spending the money on one if I know it will do what I want it to do. Unfortunately, I'm not getting the warm fuzzy feeling there.

Also, those horseshoe brackets from PSC won't work with the Can hammed pumps, which means I'd need to make/find a bracket elsewhere. It wouldn't be a big deal to make a bracket up if I had the measurments available.

Anyone ever drill out the stock Ford pumps for better flow? Did it make a difference if you did?

 

[wahlstrom1]

Just repeating what I've read.... never had it apart to look, but the orifice is around .125", and people have said drill it out up to .250". Now that to me seems a bit much.... but in baby steps may be the ticket. Step up your orifice sizes slowly and you may get the steering feel (with H/A) your after.

 

[bobbywalter]

the earlier ford pumps are junk.

junk junk junk.












have you ever seen a picture of your truck not exactly a ranger anymore...custom titling opens the door for steering options...and ass raping from insurance companies as well.


mount the e series saginaw pump and see how it goes.

if you do decide to go with assist maybe take a look at the medium duty truck pumps....there are essentially the canned ham type just more flow....

 

[Kage]

Here ya go:

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19310

I missed this when I posted above. I didn't realize the E-vans had that style pump for so long. Thanks!

Just repeating what I've read.... never had it apart to look, but the orifice is around .125", and people have said drill it out up to .250". Now that to me seems a bit much.... but in baby steps may be the ticket. Step up your orifice sizes slowly and you may get the steering feel (with H/A) your after.

I forgot to measure mine when I had it apart, but by eyeball, it looked close to 1/8". And yeah, drilling out to 1/4" seems excessive.

the earlier ford pumps are junk.

junk junk junk.

Hey, its a '94. That's a late model to me

...have you ever seen a picture of your truck not exactly a ranger anymore..

Close enough

...mount the e series saginaw pump and see how it goes.

if you do decide to go with assist maybe take a look at the medium duty truck pumps....there are essentially the canned ham type just more flow....

Either one is an option I suppose. Right now my free time is limited, so I'm doing what research I can before tearing into this project. Not to mention, winter is when we tend to wheel the most, so I want to try to minimize the down time if I can. Hence the reason I'm looking to see what people are doing currently.

With the added info now that I might be able to find the pump I need of a '90s E-van, I've got a better chance to score that stupic Horseshoe bracket that I need (I can build the bracket, but I don't really have time to fab one from scratch). So that's good news.

Along the same vein, those that have swapped in the Sag pumps, what did you do for your high pressure hose? Just use the one from the E-van, or ????

Thanks again for the input guys, this has been very informative.

 

[bobbywalter]

i split mine at the steel ford to chevy.

 

[Kage]

i split mine at the steel ford to chevy.

Did you do it yourself, or have a shop make you up another High Pressure line?

Is it just a matter of cutting/flaring the end of the ford hose to work with that pump, or?


<--- Needs to play wtih hydrolic stuff more often.....

 

[bobbywalter]

i did it myself. strictly for field fixing. two stock hoses are easy to find...

just made double flares....of course one line is a bit bigger then the other but it works.....just not pretty.

on a pretty truck i would have some made....