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Re-asking a question from a different angle


Angie

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if you do place in a real oil gauge, remember that it will show low pressure at idle also.... that is normal for any engine as the pump is slowly turning. as rpm increases so does oil pressure. cheers
 


RonSerling

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ummmmm 4" could be 6 but its a TTB and the little bugger varies from time to time !! LOL
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Hmmmmmm....interesting, from my point of view I'd be installing a mechanical oil pressure gauge before doing anything else to truly see what the oil pressure is under all conditions. I'd be hesitant to blame a fresh pump (& especially a high volume item) for a situation that is showing itself at ....just idle?

I've used Melling pumps in the past in my Chrysler/Dodge turbo engine rebuilds & never suffered from a bad pump.
Trucker, I have Autometer mechanical oil pressure, voltage and water temp gauges !! ;)
 

55trucker

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What's the oil pressure at idle when the engine is hot?
 

RonSerling

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ummmmm 4" could be 6 but its a TTB and the little bugger varies from time to time !! LOL
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What's the oil pressure at idle when the engine is hot?
It shows between 15 to 30 lbs cold and stays around 20 when warmed up. Running it will hold anywhere from 40 to 60 depending on where I am at driving it. I live in a mountain town and go down to the flatlands during the week for work so the temps and altitude vary !!!
 

55trucker

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Ok, when the engine was rebuilt did the machine shop turn the crank & were the big ends of the rods resized?
 

RonSerling

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ummmmm 4" could be 6 but its a TTB and the little bugger varies from time to time !! LOL
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Ok, when the engine was rebuilt did the machine shop turn the crank & were the big ends of the rods resized?
No as I never had the issue before rebuilding the engine. Reason for the rebuild was it was burning oil and when compression test was done it showed very low pressure in the cylinders unless you put a bit of oil in them. Rods were left alone and a new crank was installed
 

55trucker

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Well,

from what you've provided I don't see the pump as the source of the issue, you've stated that it is capable of delivering 60lbs. pressure, 60 is the pressure point where the relief opens, not having any more info on the *replacement* crank *was it a fresh reman crank that had been turned earlier, was it a new never used crank that came off the shelf*. Not having the rods resized isn't the end of the world but the shop would have/should have checked the bearing clearances with the bearing shells installed into the big ends against the rod journal (crankpin) dia to ensure that the clearances were within spec, the same goes for the crank main clearances as well.

Was the valve train also rebuilt? .........the cologne 4 has a weak spot where pushrods are concerned & the rockers should be rebuilt as well, the clatter you mentioned could be a result of what the following describes....... any place where pressure can be lost will show up on the gauge

*to quote a source *
The pushrods and rockers on the 4.0L tend to show a lot of wear, even on engines with low miles. We suspect that there are two reasons for this problem: (1) The material in the rockers appears to be too soft, so they wear on the tip, and; (2) there’s not enough oil getting to the pushrod socket, so it gets worn out, too.

There’s pressurized oil at the rocker shaft to lubricate the rockers, but there’s no direct way for that oil to get to the pushrod sockets. There’s a passage in each rocker that allows oil from around the rocker shaft to migrate out to the small hole in the top of the pushrod socket, but it’s wide open on the outer end so there is no pressure there to feed the oil down into the socket.

Apparently the small hole in the pushrod socket that intersects this passage is supposed to meter oil down into the socket somehow, in spite of all the motion that’s trying to sling the oil out from the open end of the passage in the rocker. It’s hard to believe that any oil can actually get into the sockets, so it’s no wonder they wear out prematurely. Rebuilders should expect to rebuild or replace most of the rockers. The tips can be ground if they’re not worn too badly and the sockets can be repaired by installing a special insert that’s available along with the tooling needed from Silver Seal (800-521-2936) or Goodson (800-533-8010). Or, if you prefer to have someone do them for you, rebuilt rockers are available from Delta Camshaft at 253-383-4152.

You may want to consider flame-hardening the tips, too. Ed Davis at Waterhouse Motors in Tacoma, WA, has been doing this for awhile to eliminate wear on the tips. He found that the wear on the tips was loading the valves so hard to one side that they were wearing out the guides and causing other problems in the process
 
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RonSerling

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ummmmm 4" could be 6 but its a TTB and the little bugger varies from time to time !! LOL
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Trucker, The crankshaft was a regrind 10/10 unit I purchased. On the rockers and shafts they all got shipped off to Delta Camshaft for rebuilding. I did use a new set of pushrods which I believe were a set of sealed Power units. At the time I also picked up a set of later model cylinder heads as I read they had better combustion chamber specs and made a bit more power. They went to the shop at the time of the rebuild and got a good massaging from the machinist while they were there. I understand what you are saying as at the time I did the rebuild I did research before doing it. I tried to get all the best quality or most recommended parts I could. Funny thing here is that when I first started hearing the clattering it sounded like it was coming from the number 3 or 6, back end, cylinder area and after replacing the lifters it now sounds like it is coming from the front end of the engine !! I am just curious as to if it may possibly be a bad pushrod !! My mistake when I replaced the lifters is that I did not replace the pushrods in the exact order they came out !!!
 

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Do you have a stethoscope on hand to try & pinpoint where the clattering is?

1624739010832.jpeg
 

55trucker

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A useful tool
 

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A long screwdriver can work almost as well. Put the tip of the screwdriver near you want to check or right on it and put your ear on the handle.
 

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Swapping heads, lifters, pushrods, rockers, it's no wonder you have valvetrain noise. Typically pushrods need to be measured to get the correct length. They aren't just a drop-in item, especially when you've swapped heads, rockers, and lifters. All of the geometry has changed through different machining specs, etc..
 

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There were also issues with cam bearing clearances. Did the block get new cam bearings? Large clearances in the cam bearings reduce oil pressure/flow the the rockers. IMHO the 2.9L has about the worst upper end oil system ever. Also if the tick seemed to move You may have a couple short push rods. Aside from ensuring you have the right length push rods... there has been discussion on TRS for the final adjustments of the valves. Try doing a search. They are hydraulic lifters and don't require a hot clearance as solid lifters do. They run with a bit of lifter squish and zero lash.

20psi oil pressure on a hot idle should be adequate. It also climbs with RPM increase. I doubt a new oil pump will cure your tick.

EDIT... My post was really about the 2.9L engine. I missed the part of it being a 4.0L
 
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Angie

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If it is running decent with a small tick, why worry about it? 4 L are roller lifters with bolt down rocker rails not much play there and my guess is the push rods should be within spec, as also the lifters should pump up enough pressure when running. (not broke, don't fix it)


This thread started off as a question about oil pan and pump; now it has become an engine rebuild with i am guessing a few more information bits missing.

"On the rockers and shafts they all got shipped off to Delta Camshaft for rebuilding." how did they rebuild them? why waste money doing this?


"I did use a new set of pushrods which I believe were a set of sealed Power " then you state, "My mistake when I replaced the lifters is that I did not replace the pushrods in the exact order they came out !!! " what happened here?

new pushrods would not need any placements.

4L engines have a good deal of chatter as they age. does not affect the engine at all. (or so I have seen) to me things in this thread are not jiving to the point of me asking that big question of WHY? go back in to time and what made you tear this engine apart before you tore all the components out and sent to get "rebuilt"

Do you have a build thread in here where we can see what you did step by step?

cheers
 
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