Slave Cylinder question and pilot bearing question

[Tedybear]

Ordered in a new slave for the M5OD.

Brand is LUK.

Along with the flywheel and clutch complete setup.

The slave cylinder was a combo of the release bearing and slave. New in box.

The slave was bouncing around the box a bit, but I can clearly see the release bearing has a wear pattern already in it. (Along with more then a few scratches) It's smooth as silk for spinning,...but this concerns me as I'd rather not have to drop that trans a 2nd time. (And if anyone's bothered to read the other thread? This job has been a headache beyond what I expected.)

The inlet port was covered with the red 'sock'. I can clearly see some black little specs and fluid traces. The bleed screw also has a bit of 'crust' on the bleed hole area. Not bad, that could just be from sitting around on the shelf for a while.

I've emailed Rock Auto on this...as it wouldn't be the first time I've gotten someone's return part when they scammed Rockauto. I nicely explained that I'm not sure if this wear was part of product testing...or someone installed it...the part didn't work? So they boxed it up and returned it and then I got stuck with it.


2nd question: Is the pilot bearing for this setup (1995 Explorer Sport 4.0 OHV.) in the engine crank, or the flywheel? We purchased the new flywheel as well, and it looks like where it mounts to the crank? There's already a pilot bearing in it's place! (That part is still in the shrink wrap and protective stuff...so I didn't get a close look)

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[Andy D]

In the flywheel. At least my '94 4.0 was

 

[Tedybear]

In the flywheel. At least my '94 4.0 was

That might make my life simple (for a nice change)

Sense the flywheel is new in the box (actually sealed in that shrink wrap stuff...) I think the bearing is already installed? But the kit came with the bearing anyway. But it'll be a lot easier sense everything isn't installed yet.

I'll give Rockauto a while to respond. I can always local purchase the slave and return the LUK brand one-- I'd rather not do that, as money is crazy tight again. But with my luck.......This was installed and didn't work..returned and then restocked....

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[Tedybear]

Rockauto responded last night. They will have a warehouse staff member pull a slave with the same part number and manufacturer. He seemed somewhat surprised that the part was not with instructions or internal package material. He's going to get back with me later today. Worse case, I can return and local purchase so I can get this back on the road. Or just have them swap. Very disturbed to see a circular wear pattern on a new part.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530A using Tapatalk

 

[Tedybear]

I'm opting to get it warrantied. Not sure what happened lately, but people now 'n days have no sense or honor.

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[4x4junkie]

I think I see a mark left around the mounting bolt hole too.

Yeah that thing looks like someone's used return. Possible they simply bought the wrong year part and discovered the fitting wouldn't work and returned it, but with that dirty blackish fluid around the fitting, I would not want to take chances with a contaminated part that I paid a 'new-part' price for.

I think only early models had the pilot bearing in the crank ('83-'85 I think).
FWIW, when I bought the LUK flywheel to do the 4.0L clutch on my '90 years ago, I recall the flywheel had a spacer in the center, but no pilot bearing. I was able to put the bearing that was with the clutch kit itself in the spacer (also adding a little bearing grease to it), and bolted everything up.

 

[Tedybear]

I think I see a mark left around the mounting bolt hole too.

Yeah that thing looks like someone's used return. Possible they simply bought the wrong year part and discovered the fitting wouldn't work and returned it, but with that dirty blackish fluid around the fitting, I would not want to take chances with a contaminated part that I paid a 'new-part' price for.

I think only early models had the pilot bearing in the crank ('83-'85 I think).
FWIW, when I bought the LUK flywheel to do the 4.0L clutch on my '90 years ago, I recall the flywheel had a spacer in the center, but no pilot bearing. I was able to put the bearing that was with the clutch kit itself in the spacer (also adding a little bearing grease to it), and bolted everything up.

Currently the part is sitting at the Office Max Fedex drop off. Rockauto did a free return ARS label, and will ship out a new replacement and pay the shipping at their end. So I will give them (for the moment) full marks for helping to resolve this.

The flywheel/clutch itself will get installed I hope on Tuesday. We have just received in "Stud Fix" parts for the exhaust. Rather amused (or annoyed...) that I had to shell out $60.00 for a set of what amounts to a rectangle shaped metal sleeve with a stud welded to it.

I have lock-tite for the bolts. And brake cleaner for the anti rust coating on the flywheel and pressure plate. Can't do anything further until the slave is dealt with.

Any other chem's that I should be aware of? LUK stated not to grease the release bearing. The shop guide states to coat the face of the bearing that contacts the pressure plate with High Temperature Lithium Grease. So of course the guide states one thing.....and the part description says another? I'll assume it means not to add grease to the actual release bearing itself-but the face of the bearing is okay to give a coating to.

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[4x4junkie]

I suspect they say not to grease the bearing because if you were to add a type of grease that is incompatible with (the very tiny amount of) what is already present, then the whole amount can turn into an ooze that won't lubricate anything, resulting in failure.
Sodium-base grease would cause this. Sodium grease is mostly obsolete nowadays (used to be sold as "Drum Brake Bearing Grease", and has poor water resistance).
I've seen the same "Don't grease" warnings on the papers included with u-joints too.

A non-moly lithium-base grease (such as "High-Temp Disc Brake" or lithium chassis grease) is fine to put on these parts, and is something I always do since having to pull a trans simply because a little bearing ran dry is a pretty sucky affair (have had this happen to me twice now). The release bearing doesn't have a seal around the inside bore, so it's easy to pack a little extra grease in there.

Glad to hear Rockauto is coming through in resolving this.

 

[Tedybear]

I suspect they say not to grease the bearing because if you were to add a type of grease that is incompatible with (the very tiny amount of) what is already present, then the whole amount can turn into an ooze that won't lubricate anything, resulting in failure.
Sodium-base grease would cause this. Sodium grease is mostly obsolete nowadays (used to be sold as "Drum Brake Bearing Grease", and has poor water resistance).
I've seen the same "Don't grease" warnings on the papers included with u-joints too.

A non-moly lithium-base grease (such as "High-Temp Disc Brake" or lithium chassis grease) is fine to put on these parts, and is something I always do since having to pull a trans simply because a little bearing ran dry is a pretty sucky affair (have had this happen to me twice now). The release bearing doesn't have a seal around the inside bore, so it's easy to pack a little extra grease in there.

Glad to hear Rockauto is coming through in resolving this.

Yeah I was pretty impressed so far with RockAuto's response. Miguel (the guy that I've been emailing back and forth with on this) actually contacted the manager of the shipping warehouse and had him pull one off the shelf and inspect how it was packaged and all that was supposed to be in the box. While he could have just said "That's how it is boxed, deal with it" He was pretty honest and forthcoming with the information. (Then again he probably ran my ID and found how much $$ I've spent with them... LOL)

I'm glad you mentioned not to use "Moly" based. It happens that's all I have and have ever used on wheel bearings and chassis parts (Ford "MolyLube") I'll ask at the local NAPA and see what they have.

I would ask the local yoyo's at the Advance. However their crew is "Interesting" to deal with...and personally I do not think they would know the difference between chassis grease and KY lube....

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[4x4junkie]

Shouldn't be hard to find... (it's the most common type) Go to where the greases are and find one that says suitable for disc brake wheel bearing use, or even just wheel bearing grease (you probably won't find any sodium grease that isn't labeled specifically for drum brake bearing use). Somewhere on the container it should say NLGI #2 lithium or lithium-complex base (and the grease should have a color other than gray or black).

Years ago I had read somewhere that moly-fortified greases are not recommended for use on standard roller or ball bearings, but I can't find it now (something about how moly particles can pit or erode the rollers if the mating surfaces don't actually slip past each other) Most of the moly greases I've seen have indeed been for sliding friction applications such as driveshaft splines and CV joints. I've never once had any issues with standard #2 lithium grease on bearings so I've always just stuck with what works.

 

[Tedybear]

This is getting interesting. Replacement slave came in a few days ago.

Questions about the grease:

Shop guide states:

Apply light coat of high-temp lithium based grease to the face of the bearing. This is likely the contact area where the pressure plate fingers 'ride'.

Now here's when things get odd. Instructions clearly state not to lube the bearing from LUK.

Shop guide states: Lube inner bore of the bearing and carrier with XG-1-C Ford long life grease. Isn't the the Moly Chassis lube? I've got a tub of that grease in the back of the explorer.

I'm probably overthinking things, but when it mentions lubing the bores and such? I'd rather not repeat this job.

On the lighter side? Looks like the LUK flywheel does in fact already have the pilot bearing installed. (Had to give it a closer look)

I'm a bit nervous on this one. I've had auto's in and out several dozen times in the past. Hard to believe this is my first full "Clutch" job....

Well...Got the anti-seize on the list to pick up...Gonna have to get some high temp Lith grease... And I already snagged a small vial of removable lock tite just in case any parts call for it.

Should be interesting... It's been sitting for about 2 weeks up on blocks. Weather concerns and I'm still pulling 44 hours a week at work. By the time I get home, I can't work on the old girl due to the bugs....(rural area...lots of 'skeeters' that would suck your arm off if given the chance)

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[4x4junkie]

I'm probably overthinking things, but when it mentions lubing the bores and such? I'd rather not repeat this job.

I think so.

Around the inner circumference of the TO bearing you should see a gap that goes through to the inside of the bearing (where the balls are)... take your thumb and/or forefinger and just mash some extra grease in thru that gap so the bearing is full. Wipe off the excess (leaving a thin layer on the bearing face).

I have had these things go dry on me after only 20K miles, so I wouldn't install one without making sure it has an adequate supply of grease (granted, I also drive a lot in very dusty conditions, but still).

FWIW, my FSM says the XG-1-C grease is "Premium Long-Life Grease" (Ford pt# ESA-M1C75-B). This seems like a name consistent with a quality multipurpose lithium base grease though I don't have the actual spec (composition of it) in front of me. If they're calling out it's use by the spec code (and your container also bears the same code), then I would think it should be OK to use.


Edit:
I just looked it up on Amazon... Appears it does have molybdenum compounds in it. Looks more like a chassis grease than a grease specifically for bearings.
https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Ford-XG-1-C-Premium-Long-Life/dp/B000NU39KK

Thinking about it, maybe the book is saying to lube the inside of the TO bearing carrier, rather than the bearing itself, maybe where it slides back & forth on the slave housing?

Maybe it doesn't matter, but I'd play it safe and look for an actual wheel bearing type grease for this just because it's without a doubt made for bearings.

 

[Tedybear]

Hit a roadblock like a bug on the windshield.

The exhaust repair kits won't work. So I'm trying to get hold of the ebay seller to have him resend out the larger ones. With the currently broken studs, and I'd really rather not risk snapping off manifold bolts and the tube on the drivers side for the emissions....

The wife wanted me to install the transmission, but I had to explain we needed the room around the drivers side manifold to get the exhaust sealed up. The first plan was to put the exhaust back on, and then leave it hanging down a couple of inches so the transmission could fit back on. This with the "StudFix" solution applied would allow for everything to get buttoned back up.

So it's still sitting. The clutch is installed, new flywheel pilot bearing....Even put the new slave on the transmission. Sadly the brake rotors have a rust coating all over them from sitting. I'm hopeful once it's driven a few times it will clean the rust off. Otherwise I'll have to spring for rotors. (Cheap china metal)

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