The gun thread...

[74duster318]

Alright... here are today's results at 300 yards...

60 rds with AR15 = 35 hits.

I only landed 3 of the first 10 shots. Adjusted the windage, and started landing just about all of the next 30 shots on paper. The last 20 were fired at a faster rate with an elevation adjustment, which resulted in some more misses, but still wasn't too bad.

40 rds with Springfield = 27 hits.

The first four 5 shot groups were all over the place. I didn't notice my sights were moving after every shot, so it was lowering my elevation by 50 yards every shot. I was adjusting the sights after every group so I thought I may have accidently left the sights at 100 yards or some stupid thing. Then I started checking the sights after each shot and found the rear peep's elevations adjustment is too loose...and of course I had no screw driver small enough to tighten it, so I had to reset the sights after each shot thereafter. But I was on paper with every shot after that.

Ammunition was about half and half Denver ordinance 1942 and Lake City 1942 surplus. I'm really tempted to buy a couple new commercial boxes of ammo to see how new ammo, which is sure to be consistent, shoots compared to mixed surplus. That may tighten the mess a little.

Also, I did get a set of walkie talkies so my dad could stand in the trench at 300 and radio back to let me know what I was hitting. Worked great until we realized that the batteries that came with them were almost dead, and the other batteries we had were also dead. Got the first 15 shots off before they died.

I may go back tomorow to do another group when they're fully charged, so I can dial them in with a real time spotter.

Here are some pics of the range...

Section 1:The 600 yard competition range (I dream of the day I can group at this range)

Section 2 and 3: 300 yard and 100 yard sheltered ranges. (where I was shooting today)

Section 4: is another portion like 2 and 3, but without a shelter. (bench rests only) Didn't get a pic of that.

Section 5: The small pistol only range.

Section 6: The trap range. (also no pic, didn't go by that area today)

And of course there's a range office building where you pay and get targets. Also, nice restrooms and vending machines in a separate building.

It's gotta be one of the nicest shooting ranges in the state, and probably a good portion of the country.

All in all, I have to say I like the springfield alot more than the AR15 for long range shooting. That authority in your shoulder (even though you pay the price later) feels nice, and the sights are really fine tuned for long range. It also has a super thin front sight post, where the AR's seems quite cobby and thick. I found it harder to keep repeating the same sight picture with the AR, which may have lead to missing the target several times. That in-turn made adjusting the sights not much of a help at times.

Conclusion: Must get more practice....

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

While I had the camera and one of my newer aquisitions out for the sight thread, it occured to me that I had never updated this with some new (to me) stuff I have dragged home.

1860 Colt Army replica, .44 Cal, by Pietta

On sale last June, I had a thread going about a Mosin-Nagant (funny to think how long it took me remember that name, now I can correctly spell it)

I got this baby on sale, freshly rearsonalled 1943 ex sniper with a bunch of goodies (bayonet not pictured). Fun to shoot, but I am still trying to get used to the mile and half of trigger pull... I keep jumping when it finally goes off.

Finally after our Labor Day travels to Sturgis for the Mustang Rally, we stopped at Sidney Ne for a quick breather from sitting the car and I found this gem on sale. 1858 Remington .44 Army with a 5-1/2" barrel. Goes quite nicely with my full length barrel model.

 

[doorgunner]

Great pics!

I ve got a question....I've been wondring about this for 32 years....and I'm looking for a scientifically-based (whew...big word) answer.

"When traveling at about 200 mph, about 600 feet above the terrain before sunrise or near sunset, and firing at a moving "target" which is traveling about 25 mph.......why does it appear that the tracers are traveling in an arc from the barrel of the machine gun to the "point of impact"?


(In case I forget that I asked this question please p.m. the answer to me after posting it here.....thanks.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Great pics!

I ve got a question....I've been wondring about this for 32 years....and I'm looking for a scientifically-based (whew...big word) answer.

"When traveling at about 200 mph, about 600 feet above the terrain before sunrise or near sunset, and firing at a moving "target" which is traveling about 25 mph.......why does it appear that the tracers are traveling in an arc from the barrel of the machine gun to the "point of impact"?


(In case I forget that I asked this question please p.m. the answer to me after posting it here.....thanks.

Gravity.

Bullets never fly level, in order to hit anything over a certain distance away you have to aim up to lob it over there. Different guns require more elevation to reach a certain distance.

If you know anyone with a bow, a 40yd shot will demonstrate the same thing at a speed you can watch.

 

[crbnunit]

Ja. It is called a ballistic arc. If you want to watch it, set up a big, slow moving bullet like a 45-70 and have a buddy fire at a distant target, say 300-400 yards, and watch the bullet through a spotting scope. All bullets do it, the big/slow ones are just easier to watch.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Ja. It is called a ballistic arc. If you want to watch it, set up a big, slow moving bullet like a 45-70 and have a buddy fire at a distant target, say 300-400 yards, and watch the bullet through a spotting scope. All bullets do it, the big/slow ones are just easier to watch.

That is why I recomended a bow, lots bigger than anything a gun can fart out and they go a lot slower. No scope or huge range required, I do 40yd shots in my backyard all the time.

 

['95 ranger]

I just bought my first gun I'm 18 and I've always wanted one so after I turned 18 and saved up some money, I bought this.

12 gauge mossberg, I bought 100 rounds and some skeet when I bought the gun (I had never even shot a 12 gauge before much less shoot at a moving target) and I'm actually not bad for only having gone shooting twice. I can usually hit about 3 out of 5 clay pigeons.

 

[doorgunner]

Ja. It is called a ballistic arc. If you want to watch it, set up a big, slow moving bullet like a 45-70 and have a buddy fire at a distant target, say 300-400 yards, and watch the bullet through a spotting scope. All bullets do it, the big/slow ones are just easier to watch.

Thanks.....I guess you had to be there....it's hard to explain...I'm not talking about "drop" though. It actually appears that the tracers are aimed about 20* to 30* ahead of the moving "target"...then the rounds seem to curve BACK SLIGHTLY toward the "point of impact"....

I'm not talking about "LEAD" either....it just plain looked weird every time....


Bad example...you know how a train horn sounds as the train approaches & then passes by you....like i sayed.....bad example....and....No....i didn't use drugs until 2005....LOL


thanks for giving me some answers......

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Probably because you were moving too.

 

[Twizzler09]

DG, here is the best explanation I can give. I'll try to word it so its can be understood.

Imagine a fly, inside the cab of your truck. Just chillin in the top of the seat. The truck is going down the highway at 60mph. That means the fly is also traveling at 60mph. Now the fly takes off into the air and flies towards the front of the truck at a speed of 5mph (only guessing at the fly's speed here). For a short time, the energy from the forward movement of truck will assist the fly in attaining a higher than usual flight speed. But only until the energy wears off, which is fairly quickly. So for the time span of a couple seconds, the fly is actually travelling at a speed of 65mph, and the truck is moving at a speed of 60mph.

The same thing applies to rounds fired from a helicopter. Only with one more thing added to it. Perception.

The rounds are already traveling at 200mph "forward", when fired, the energy from the powder explosion will propel them out of the barrel of the weapon, and through the air. The energy from the forward movement of the helicopter is transferred to the round, and keeps the round traveling forward at the same 200mph for a short time. But then the helicopter keeps moving forward and the round starts to slow down, which means the helicopter pulls ahead of the round, thus creating the illusion that the round is "arcing" the way you describe.

 

[doorgunner]

DG, here is the best explanation I can give. I'll try to word it so its can be understood.

Imagine a fly, inside the cab of your truck. Just chillin in the top of the seat. The truck is going down the highway at 60mph. That means the fly is also traveling at 60mph. Now the fly takes off into the air and flies towards the front of the truck at a speed of 5mph (only guessing at the fly's speed here). For a short time, the energy from the forward movement of truck will assist the fly in attaining a higher than usual flight speed. But only until the energy wears off, which is fairly quickly. So for the time span of a couple seconds, the fly is actually travelling at a speed of 65mph, and the truck is moving at a speed of 60mph.

The same thing applies to rounds fired from a helicopter. Only with one more thing added to it. Perception.

I like it......I like it a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


O.K.

One more question...the helicopter has landed...I am firing at a stationary "target" 50 feet away from me.... the rounds hit the ground within 2 ft of the "target".....so I aim at the top of the "target"...the rounds still hit the ground within 2 ft of the target....(the barrel of the machine gun is not overheated/warped/bent/ammo is not defective/ & I am not on drugs). I have talked to one other veteran ho had a similar problem in combat with an M-16.....let me know what you think.

The rounds are already traveling at 200mph "forward", when fired, the energy from the powder explosion will propel them out of the barrel of the weapon, and through the air. The energy from the forward movement of the helicopter is transferred to the round, and keeps the round traveling forward at the same 200mph for a short time. But then the helicopter keeps moving forward and the round starts to slow down, which means the helicopter pulls ahead of the round, thus creating the illusion that the round is "arcing" the way you describe.

.

 

[Mac]

The "target" is already down on the ground and not a paper "target". Think you dropped the "target" with the first burst and now you're shooting at the top of the "target" which is assume would have been his head?
Dave

 

[crbnunit]

I like both the EOTech and ACOG sights for the AR. Unfortunately, they are both hideously expensive. I saw a knock off for sale the other day that encorperated both.

 

[Mac]

Just amazing!
Dave

 

[doorgunner]

The "target" is already down on the ground and not a paper "target". Think you dropped the "target" with the first burst and now you're shooting at the top of the "target" which is assume would have been his head?
Dave

thanks for the p.m.......it wasn't a trick question....what I saw happening seemed impossible, but it happened....WOL (wonder-out-loud)