460 swap

[bobbywalter]

cam guy will send you the break in additive. follow procedure and you will be fine. just go conservative with the carb so it starts and runs fine for break in...sometimes a guy cant keep it running smooth and that with tear it up.


generally speaking i move any v8 swap over in 4x4 applicatons using a fullsize t case because its a fullsize t case.


its easy to fab up an airbox duct so you still have your heater/defrost functions. even ac if you rob a burb or van unit. from the pictures, your chosen mounting method appears it may allow stock ac primary box and evaporator to be retained with a custom engine side shell like i do with 351's.

if your not afraid to put the radiator forward into a modded grille and frame you will have enough room for a mechanical or killer electric fan as well....and plenty of radiator to mitigate cooling issues.


there was a ranger on e bay a few times with the lower pump package like you have available based out of texas with similar setup...


i would likely prefer an over/outside rail steering box myself to make for some room for filter etc but if you can make it go with a stock box its gonna save some time on initial setup.


one thing i strongly suggest is to take 20 minutes to get rid of the radius arm bracket rivets and put bolts in there so the radius arm brackets just pop out for future work. that and a removable core really make maintenance a breeze.

 

[t120r]

What about using a diesel oil, like Shell Rotella T or something similar? I've read it still has the "stuff" needed to run a flat tappet cam.

I'd like a hydraulic roller, but they're a little more money than I want to spend.

The diesel oil has the zinc removed as well. The guys on 460ford.com seem to like Valvoline VR1 20w50 racing oil for break in. Make sure to use a good additive as well. Comp Cams, Joe Gibbs and GM EOS are all good ones.

NEVER use a hydraulic roller with a BBF. The angles are all wrong. You can use a hydraulic roller with solid roller tappets and it would live as the ramp rates aren't so severe.

 

[RoidedRanger]

Thanks for the pics!

How did it wipe the lobes? Is it easy to do? Error on your part? I'm a noob here who is going to attempt a cam swap, but I don't want to screw it up.


.

mostly error on my part and ill admit it. i didnt no at the time that newer oil didnt hav zinc in it and its VERY dangerous breaking in a cam (tappet style) with out some kind of break-in lube. so i just started er up with regular 10w-40 and starting breaking her in. also i had everything ready to race, so i had both my race set of double wound valve springs in the heads with the valves adjusted to spec.

best bet if your going to run tappet style cam is to buy the break in oil additive thats made to do that and if you hav high valve spring pressure or double wound valve springs put somthing lighter in there just for break in.

worked out for the better i was wanting a roller setup anyway, this just gave me a good excuse.

 

[t120r]

You should run 20w50 Valvoline VR1... I can't count the number of people who told me that's the only oil to run. Check out www.460ford.com.

Break in on a BBF = good oil (see above) + Moly cam lube + oil additive + break in valve springs + Min 20 minutes above 2000 rpm. A lot of guys advise to go over 30 mins to be sure.

I will do all of the above, just with a solid roller just to be sure. The only exception will be my valve springs. I'm using an XR274H spec'd for the street and speed density EFI in mind. So I also have lighter springs to help it live for street use. Remember a roller valvetrain in a BBF is designed for 2000rpm or higher ALL THE TIME. To make it live on the street is not easy.

 

[RoidedRanger]

mine is definatly a race only motor. i will be running the valvoline 20w-50 when i get it built up again, but ill probably do the initial startup with the cheaper oil since it wont be run hard, mainly just to clean any contaminates out of the motor from assembly. then ill drain that and put in the above oil and finish tuning.

all this will be done on a dyno this time tho. its well worth the money IMO to get any race motor properly tuned prior to racing it.

 

[t120r]

mine is definatly a race only motor. i will be running the valvoline 20w-50 when i get it built up again, but ill probably do the initial startup with the cheaper oil since it wont be run hard, mainly just to clean any contaminates out of the motor from assembly. then ill drain that and put in the above oil and finish tuning.

all this will be done on a dyno this time tho. its well worth the money IMO to get any race motor properly tuned prior to racing it.

If it was me, I would run the Valvoline VR1 from the start. Race engines aren't cheap and it's not worth chancing it. Your cam needs the good stuff for the initial breakin for protection. I will be running it from the start, even with my roller cam. The $100 in oil is cheap insurance for my $6000 engine.

 

[RoidedRanger]

your right it definatly isnt cheap, esspecially when you hav to do it after youve only run it 15min from doing it the first time.

i think ill still go with the cheap stuff first. it really doesnt need the expensive oil or the heavier weight just to circulate it thru the motor to get the dust and contaminates out for the initial run. after a warm up or 2 with VERY minimal load ill change the oil and filter and put in the VR1 and continue wiht the dyno runs for testing and tuning. im hopeing for 650hp without the spray, then maybe a 200hp or if im feeling froggy a 250hp shot.

that should be all the stock block and crank wants and my SCAT Hbeams.

 

[t120r]

your right it definatly isnt cheap, esspecially when you hav to do it after youve only run it 15min from doing it the first time.

i think ill still go with the cheap stuff first. it really doesnt need the expensive oil or the heavier weight just to circulate it thru the motor to get the dust and contaminates out for the initial run. after a warm up or 2 with VERY minimal load ill change the oil and filter and put in the VR1 and continue wiht the dyno runs for testing and tuning. im hopeing for 650hp without the spray, then maybe a 200hp or if im feeling froggy a 250hp shot.

that should be all the stock block and crank wants and my SCAT Hbeams.

I forgot that you said you will be going roller as well. Should work fine as you said.
What are the specs of your engine? 650HP is a lot of money huh? Desktop dyno puts me at 608. Only the real dyno will tell. I'm only concerned about running 11:1 on pump gas. HP is a secondary concern.
btw: my Harley sportster runs 11.2:1 on 93 octane. With some tuning I'm gonna step it to 87 and see what happens. A lot of work to prevent detonation.

 

[RoidedRanger]

yes alot of money indeed. luckily this is my dads old race motor that i got from him, he had already done a good bit of work to it. ive added the H-beam rods, had the block milled .030 to get the pistons flush with block, the heads milled .050, ported and polished the heads as instructed by the mad porter on 460ford, ported the intake, and converted to a roller valve train (already had roller rockers).

650hp is on the high end of my expectations, ill be right around 12.5:1 comp and running only racing fuel. since my main task with this truck will be sled pulling and mud racing, torque will be wat im after.

only thing really killing this motor is the intake system, im running a WEIAND STEALTH intake and a holley 850 carb. i would hav a VICTOR intake with a either 1050 or 1150 but since the block, heads, and intake hav all already been milled to work together. im already planning/scraping parts together for my next motor which will hav a VICTOR and and 1150, with PI heads worked all the way out, a 4.5" stroker crank with .030 over pistons (545ci), and bump up comp to 13.5-14:1. im going to shoot for 750hp off the bottle and then fog it with 300-400hp of spray.

 

[t120r]

The mad porter is who custom ground my roller cam for me. It was an interesting conversation with him. He tried to talk me out of my current cam because it will limit my HP to 630-650. Hahaha. I think he had a hard time believing that I really wanted a street cam. Once I told him my build he seemed to get excited about it. He understood about the speed density EFI and how I needed rock steady vacuum. Hopefully it works as spec'd.

Have you considered Aluminum heads? My SCJs outflow the PIs by a fair bit out of the box and they run about $1600 assembled. It was over $1000 for me to rebuild my DOVEs with all the machine work. Raises the roof in case you want more grunt. Some guys are limited in class to iron heads though. With the 545 you plan, P51s are just what the doc ordered... If you can use them of course. There's a thread on 460ford.com where a guy makes 1000HP NA. That's crazy.

 

[RoidedRanger]

i hav but with the sled pulling classes down here ive got to hav iron heads. id like to hav a set of ex514 heads but good luck finding those.

id love to get a set of a460 heads and run that but i cant.

 

[t120r]

There was a set of ex514 heads for sale in Newbrunswick. Try Kijiji. I dunno what shipping would be straight down the east coast though. The guy had a lot of BBF stuff for sale. Try emailing anyone with BBF parts listed.

I'm debating twin turbo or a centrifugal supercharger once my truck is completed. I'll run an AEM meth system. I already have the AEM EMS and the 2 talk together for perfect control. Would be a potent combo.

 

[RoidedRanger]

i would love to hav a roots blower on mine with alcohol inection and bump up there around 1500hp but im definatly not savvy enough in that department to do that. nitrous is alot easier, long as you get the proper timing backed back out of the ignition.

also those big high hp motors are cool and sound awesome but in all honesty they are a nightmare. you are always adjustiing or checking stuff and everytime it hickups or doesanything unusuall your heart stops cuz you think something major has happened. my dad has a 600ci bbf with a460 heads and it currently has 6 burnt pistons from too much nitrous and timing combo. that thing is more tempermental than a women. plus its cool to hav a completely stock appearing motor that nobody gives a second look at then go out and whoop theyre asses on the track.

im planning on running in the 6750lbs big block modified class (aluminum heads would be in the super mod class) no bottle (not allowed), then step up and go to the 8000lbs open motor class and spray the hell out of it.

 

[t120r]

I wouldn't want a roots blower for the street. Too much grunt down low. I like the idea of progressive boost vs RPM. Makes it more streetable. My truck is being designed with 100% daily driving in mind. Of course it will be capable of doing other things, but I need a goal with no compromise.

Unfortunately my motor won't look stock. The Performer RPM Air Gap is drilled for injectors and has a 1290cfm throttle body on top. It does look like a dominator carb though. I've also got 8 GM LS coils on top of the valve covers. So it looks obvioulsy modified. I'm sure 90% of people where I'm from have no idea what a BBF is supposed to look like anyway. But, I'm hoping no one will know as there won't be a hole in the hood and eventually I will narrow the full width axles to stock width. That will be a nice sleeper

 

[RoidedRanger]

aside from the obvious sound of the roller cam and huge headers, mine will apear pretty mild. only thing visually modified is the tall valve covers, headers, balencer, WEIAND intake, MSD ignition, nitrous solinoids and plate, and electric water pump. i guess if sombody was looking close enough they would see the ARP head studs.

the heads still say C8VE with regular un-raised exhaust ports, the block still has the original numbers and casting marks on the outside, regular brass freeze plugs, hell im even running a stock oil pan.