Nav question

[James Morse]

So I got a Samsung A8, ($190 incl tax) don't know yet if I'm keeping it but just checking some stuff out.
Looks like Google maps limits you how big a map you can download. But a huge section of VA was like 300M so that's nothing out of 64G storage.
One with 128G was only $80 more.
Does anyone know how much space the onxoffroad maps take? I didn't buy it yet and I don't know if I buy it and put it on this tablet if I switch to another tablet do I have to buy it again?
Do I want one that takes a pen (this doesn't)?
What happens is when you put it in airplane mode (to simulate being out of range of internet) you can still have the G-maps show everything but if you zoom in you can see a boundary where your saved map has detail but outside of it, doesn't.
Anyway, looks like unless there are other features, or if onxoffroad maps are bigger, I really don't need tons of storage. Storage vs memory, 2 diff things.
Found out the little easel for it "book cover" would be super nice, doesn't come with it and it's like $40 (rip off!) but that's probably where they make money.
The other one I looked at was like 260 on sale from 450 or something, I think about the same but 128G storage. I'd go with that if it had something I need but from what I see so far, storage isn't the issue.
Then I need some way to secure it in the truck and I'm thinking I'll have to construct something to fit over the trans hump - big empty space there right now.

 

[sgtsandman]

I'll need to look on my Samsung A7. Please hold...

 

[sgtsandman]

So I got a Samsung A8, ($190 incl tax) don't know yet if I'm keeping it but just checking some stuff out.
Looks like Google maps limits you how big a map you can download. But a huge section of VA was like 300M so that's nothing out of 64G storage.
One with 128G was only $80 more.
Does anyone know how much space the onxoffroad maps take? I didn't buy it yet and I don't know if I buy it and put it on this tablet if I switch to another tablet do I have to buy it again?
Do I want one that takes a pen (this doesn't)?
What happens is when you put it in airplane mode (to simulate being out of range of internet) you can still have the G-maps show everything but if you zoom in you can see a boundary where your saved map has detail but outside of it, doesn't.
Anyway, looks like unless there are other features, or if onxoffroad maps are bigger, I really don't need tons of storage. Storage vs memory, 2 diff things.
Found out the little easel for it "book cover" would be super nice, doesn't come with it and it's like $40 (rip off!) but that's probably where they make money.
The other one I looked at was like 260 on sale from 450 or something, I think about the same but 128G storage. I'd go with that if it had something I need but from what I see so far, storage isn't the issue.
Then I need some way to secure it in the truck and I'm thinking I'll have to construct something to fit over the trans hump - big empty space there right now.

OnX Offroad uses 196 MB. You pay for an annual subscription and it does seem to matter how many devices you have it on. I have it downloaded on my tablet right now. OnX Hunt, I have both on it and my phone.

Having a stylus is going to depend on you. You can get one separately if you want.

Someone with more experience will have to answer the question on the details about the maps. I'm still learning myself.

The tablet should have a port for a Micro SD card for more storage. The largest I've seen is 1 Terabyte or 1024 Gigabytes. Mine does and I plan to store any down loaded maps on it. The tablet has 64 GB of storage. So it might be enough but if you load up the memory too much, it will slow down the operating speed of the tablet, just like it does with a phone.

I got a armored case, like what you can get for a cell phone and a glass screen protector for mine. Amazon has them for pretty cheap. Mine was $17. It has a kickstand built into the case.

As far as a mount, I chose to go with a stick like mount that uses a seat rail bolt to secure it. I do not plan on leaving the tablet in the vehicle or it will get hidden out of sight on trips when not in use.

This is what I planned to do. Reality came out differently but I think it will work. I may need to shore up the arm against vibration but I'm not sure yet.

 

[Blmpkn]

What's the reasoning behind the tablet purchase rather than an actual GPS?

 

[ericbphoto]

What's the reasoning behind the tablet purchase rather than an actual GPS?

To be able to use other Nav apps more specifically aimed toward our use, such as GAIA, OnX, All Trails, etc. And have a decent screen size.

 

[sgtsandman]

What's the reasoning behind the tablet purchase rather than an actual GPS?

To add to what Eric said, your standard vehicle GPS unit does not cover off road trails very much. They do have some of the public access trails but none or the private ones.

At LBL, I was able to follow along and have a decent idea where we were and I had the ability to get back to camp. The detail wasn’t great but it was there. The display is small but workable.

At AOAA, I had absolutely nothing. If I had gotten separated or needed to separate and head back, the paper map the staff gave me would have been my only information source.

With trail like the Trans American Trail, it would be a mix of public and private roads. That could be a big problem.

Thus where the tablet comes in. With a tablet that has GPS capability, you can follow along on downloaded maps and use it to select alternate routes if there is something that makes the chosen route impassable.

The bigger size also makes it easier to read as you are bouncing along the trail and can be better zoomed in or zoomed out, depending on ones’s need. It also gives you the ability to see topography and satellite images. Though the satellite imagery may require a data connection to work. I still have some learning to do on the use of OnX to see what it can and can’t do.

The alternative, if you have the cash, is to buy a GPS unit specifically made for off road. They are pretty expensive though, and the screen size isn’t as good.

EDIT: I suppose one could take the approach of “pay me now or pay me later” as well. OnX and I believe Gaia require an yearly subscription where as the dedicated GPS, like Garmin’s Offroad model does not. So in the long run, the Garmin would probably be cheaper. So, pick your poison.

 

[sgtsandman]

@James Morse here are the pictures as promised. It looks like I might be able to shorten the support rod and make the stand a better fit for the truck. I’ll need to attempt to take it apart to see if I can trim it down.

 

[Lefty]

And this is why I have $20 second or so hand Garmin units on hand... there's more cell towers and reception around anymore but there's still dead spots...

Good idea! I'm going tp look for one.

 

[James Morse]

and a glass screen protector

So the touch screen still works behind the glass protector? Seems like it would have to be so.

It looks like to shorten your mount (which is pretty cool) you'd have to cut out some of the center section then put a collar around the ends. I suppose like you say it could vibrate depending on conditions. Nice sturdy way to mount it though for sure.

I'm taking the A8 64G back and getting the 128G which is only $20 more. They didn't offer me that in the store, I guess because they don't have them in stock but I can order it online.

I might be out of left field here, but I think what's going on with the memory is this: Memory (4G is the most I see without going hugely up in price) is where the active programs are working. Think of the old computers, they came with I believe 128K (K, not M or G) then you could expand them to a huge 640K with add on cards and chips. Then you had storage - floppy disks 5-1/4", then hard disks (5M or 10M at first). That's where stuff stays until it has to get loaded into memory.

Now we have these humongous memory and storage. Again I'm spitballing here but I think the only way you can make the tablets (or phone) not get memory-bound (slow) is disable all the apps you don't want. Seems like you'll still see a lot of "system" stuff in storage, not much you can do about that, and I have to wonder how do you fill up like 18G with system stuff but that's the way it is. It still leaves a lot.

Your maps saved offline go into storage then loaded to memory when you need one. So in theory you could fill up many G of storage with maps or whatever you want and it shouldn't affect memory at all until you load one, and from what I see maps aren't even 1G in size.

What I don't get is why can you have huge storage but not much (by comparison) memory. I'll leave it to the geeks to explain that. There has to be a reason.

As you can tell I'm out of touch with today's tech. When I started in computers (and worked in it a few decades) we had punch cards, then mag tape storage, and you didn't get to "run" stuff you wrote prograns and compiled them and gave them to the "computer operators" and waited in line for it to run. Different era.

Computers that had insufficient memory or weren't managed right could "thrash". That means they would swap stuff into memory but other programs were waiting so they'd swap it back out and load new things but never actually do any computing. Like if you have multiple projects going on and you look at one and see, ah, I have to do such and so, but then go to a different project and etc but never get anything done. It can happen.

Anyway, I hate taking back opened items, seems like a waste, don't know how they fix them to re-sell (I messed with it some) but that's their business. When you think about it, it's a sh*tload of compute power for $200. In 1983 the first IBM PC's were like $5k which would translate after inflation to $15.5k today. IBM was slow on the uptake - famous quote "why in the world would anyone want a computer in their home?"

Edit: The A8 128G seems the ticket if you're in the market. It's on sale for 200 vs like 350 regular price. Sales ends Monday I think. At that price I wouldn't probably get their maintenance programs. It has a year parts/labor warranty and if it failed in a year I'd just get another newer one.

Most don't have provision to put SIM until you get to the really expensive ones. But I don't see that as a huge problem. Unless you're homebound you still want a little phone you can put in your pocket.

Have to be careful to not become slaves to these devices. It can become a rabbit hole. You know it's a number of hours to set them up the way you want.

 

[James Morse]

Ah, you can get memory card for 256G that fits in the A8 for about $20. So maybe I just keep this one because even if I went to all the hassle of return/order other one I'd still upgrade the memory and it would just cost more plus a lot of running around/ordering all that crap.

I've seen places that say you can upgrade to 1T but not sure if that's true plus even 256G is probably overkill. But if it doesn't hurt anything, why not do it just in case.

Edit: 512G card is $32.

Edit: I have to say Samsung has pretty good web docs but it's still confusing.
The tray that can hold a SIM also holds a memory card. SIM lets you maintain connection when you're away from wi-fi. This is something I could theoretically try by taking the SIM out of my phone and putting it in, I think it's the right size.
What I don't get is where is, if I already have 64G and I add, say, 512G memory card it seems like I'd have 576G. Unless there's a 64G card in the slot already which I guess is easy enough to find out.
It's quite confusing.
More edits: Had 'chat' with Samsung. They are really good for support. Here's the deal. You can put up to (total) 1T memory that means you can't put a 1T card because then you have 1T + what's in there already. You can put 512G for total of 128G (if you get that one) + 512G = 640G which is a ton of memory.
You can add SIM also because the tray has a place for both. SIM let's you use your regular phone provider so you have connectivity wherever you have cell service. Doesn't help for off-road where you don't have service but would be nice for on-road. Otherwise you are limited to your home wi-fi or whatever wi-fi might be offered (lots of places do, but on the road, no).
So I'm gonna trade my 64G A8 in for a 128G and turns out they lowered the prices again so it'll be an even swap for money, then if Best Buy has the 512G cards I'll get one or else order it from Samsung.

Sorry for the run-on but that's the deal of how it works at least as I understand it now.

 

[sgtsandman]

So the touch screen still works behind the glass protector? Seems like it would have to be so.

It looks like to shorten your mount (which is pretty cool) you'd have to cut out some of the center section then put a collar around the ends. I suppose like you say it could vibrate depending on conditions. Nice sturdy way to mount it though for sure.

I'm taking the A8 64G back and getting the 128G which is only $20 more. They didn't offer me that in the store, I guess because they don't have them in stock but I can order it online.

I might be out of left field here, but I think what's going on with the memory is this: Memory (4G is the most I see without going hugely up in price) is where the active programs are working. Think of the old computers, they came with I believe 128K (K, not M or G) then you could expand them to a huge 640K with add on cards and chips. Then you had storage - floppy disks 5-1/4", then hard disks (5M or 10M at first). That's where stuff stays until it has to get loaded into memory.

Now we have these humongous memory and storage. Again I'm spitballing here but I think the only way you can make the tablets (or phone) not get memory-bound (slow) is disable all the apps you don't want. Seems like you'll still see a lot of "system" stuff in storage, not much you can do about that, and I have to wonder how do you fill up like 18G with system stuff but that's the way it is. It still leaves a lot.

Your maps saved offline go into storage then loaded to memory when you need one. So in theory you could fill up many G of storage with maps or whatever you want and it shouldn't affect memory at all until you load one, and from what I see maps aren't even 1G in size.

What I don't get is why can you have huge storage but not much (by comparison) memory. I'll leave it to the geeks to explain that. There has to be a reason.

As you can tell I'm out of touch with today's tech. When I started in computers (and worked in it a few decades) we had punch cards, then mag tape storage, and you didn't get to "run" stuff you wrote prograns and compiled them and gave them to the "computer operators" and waited in line for it to run. Different era.

Computers that had insufficient memory or weren't managed right could "thrash". That means they would swap stuff into memory but other programs were waiting so they'd swap it back out and load new things but never actually do any computing. Like if you have multiple projects going on and you look at one and see, ah, I have to do such and so, but then go to a different project and etc but never get anything done. It can happen.

Anyway, I hate taking back opened items, seems like a waste, don't know how they fix them to re-sell (I messed with it some) but that's their business. When you think about it, it's a sh*tload of compute power for $200. In 1983 the first IBM PC's were like $5k which would translate after inflation to $15.5k today. IBM was slow on the uptake - famous quote "why in the world would anyone want a computer in their home?"

Edit: The A8 128G seems the ticket if you're in the market. It's on sale for 200 vs like 350 regular price. Sales ends Monday I think. At that price I wouldn't probably get their maintenance programs. It has a year parts/labor warranty and if it failed in a year I'd just get another newer one.

Most don't have provision to put SIM until you get to the really expensive ones. But I don't see that as a huge problem. Unless you're homebound you still want a little phone you can put in your pocket.

Have to be careful to not become slaves to these devices. It can become a rabbit hole. You know it's a number of hours to set them up the way you want.

I'm hoping to be able to cut off the one end of the tube and shorten it that way, that way I won't have to find a collar to mate two pieces together. It depends on what I find when I remove the flex arm or attempt to remove the flex arm. If it ends up being a problem, then I'll look at the collar idea. I may also need to make a support strut to prop the one end and minimize vibrations, maybe. It would clamp onto the tune and have a foot on the end of the support strut to sit on the floor or against the transmission hump. Time will tell if that will work or not.

My understanding on the micro SD card is that it's for file storage only. So, it expands the memory but it doesn't at the same time. Files, like maps should be savable to that card and accessible by the apps that can use the file. I guess I need to study on that further just to make sure I got it right.

I have no interest in having cellular connectivity with the tablet and if I understand the model I got properly, that service isn't available. I just need the GPS and WiFi for downloading the maps and system updates when needed. Worse comes to worse, theoretically, I could use my phone as a hot spot.

 

[Blmpkn]

To be able to use other Nav apps more specifically aimed toward our use, such as GAIA, OnX, All Trails, etc. And have a decent screen size.

Right on. Giant screens are always appreciated

 

[ericbphoto]

To add to what Eric said, your standard vehicle GPS unit does not cover off road trails very much. They do have some of the public access trails but none or the private ones.

At LBL, I was able to follow along and have a decent idea where we were and I had the ability to get back to camp. The detail wasn’t great but it was there. The display is small but workable.

At AOAA, I had absolutely nothing. If I had gotten separated or needed to separate and head back, the paper map the staff gave me would have been my only information source.

With trail like the Trans American Trail, it would be a mix of public and private roads. That could be a big problem.

Thus where the tablet comes in. With a tablet that has GPS capability, you can follow along on downloaded maps and use it to select alternate routes if there is something that makes the chosen route impassable.

The bigger size also makes it easier to read as you are bouncing along the trail and can be better zoomed in or zoomed out, depending on ones’s need. It also gives you the ability to see topography and satellite images. Though the satellite imagery may require a data connection to work. I still have some learning to do on the use of OnX to see what it can and can’t do.

The alternative, if you have the cash, is to buy a GPS unit specifically made for off road. They are pretty expensive though, and the screen size isn’t as good.

EDIT: I suppose one could take the approach of “pay me now or pay me later” as well. OnX and I believe Gaia require an yearly subscription where as the dedicated GPS, like Garmin’s Offroad model does not. So in the long run, the Garmin would probably be cheaper. So, pick your poison.

With Garmin, you used to have to buy map updates periodically to stay current. I don't know if that is still true. But that would negate the absence of an annual subscription.

The tablet can also be a lot more versatile. If you have cell signal, you have access to visual weather info, which can be very helpful in choosing a suitable camping spot. That can be done on a cell phone, also, but the larger screen feature comes into play again.

 

[sgtsandman]

With Garmin, you used to have to buy map updates periodically to stay current. I don't know if that is still true. But that would negate the absence of an annual subscription.

The tablet can also be a lot more versatile. If you have cell signal, you have access to visual weather info, which can be very helpful in choosing a suitable camping spot. That can be done on a cell phone, also, but the larger screen feature comes into play again.

I don't know when they started but updates are now free with no expiration. As long as the GPS is hooked up to WiFi or a computer via USB, you can update the maps and/or software as needed.

 

[James Morse]

I could use my phone as a hot spot

Ach you are way ahead of me. The hot spot thing only occurred to me the other day just before I saw your post. It works - not fast, like, maybe 3M/s. When you think about it, phones already have to transmit so it just uses that, but kind of neat.
Of course the whole point is having something that works out of cell range (offline maps) so assuming the main purpose of the tablet is nav, it really doesn't help anything.
And a phone will do the same thing a tablet will do, just, phone memory is pretty small, and, big screen is nice.
I returned the 64G A8, swapped it for 128G A8, because of sales the price was identical. Didn't get extra storage because 128G is huge, I doubt I'd ever use it all, maps aren't that big. If I do I can get 512K for like $30.
I hate spending but it was $350 regular price, sale price $180 so I figure if I were ever going to get one, now is the time.
As to SIM, there are lots of vids showing A8 with place for SIM but I'm pretty sure those are -not- US models those are foreign. Just as per hot spot - which can work - I decided SIM really doesn't help me, it's cool, but this is pretty much a one-purpose item (for offroad). That said, they are nice for use at home for news etc, where you have wi-fi.
Hope that clears up my previous mangled post about it. I still need to get the protector case for it and figure how it'll mount in the truck. Does the screen protector not interfere with the touch screen operation?