4hi vs 4lo

[James Morse]

Ah well that's what I get for making assumptions as to why you had the air. I got to finish your build thread. Air sounds great to have though.
Did not realize this problem of the pinion diameter, thanks. How about 4.56, same problem, or just less of it? There are others in between my 3.73 and 4.56 but at some point if it's just a tiny change it's not worth it.
Any reason I'd want to go to 4R70 trans? I'm guessing firm no because lots of work and the 4.0L would never come even close to over-torquing the 4R55.
I had to go a couple places this evening and pretended I had Aussies, how would I drive and found you are of course correct what you say. Probably it's like, I drove stick for decades, went to auto, found myself reaching for stick that wasn't there, but in short order that goes away so driving w/ lockers of that type probably becomes natural and instinctive pretty quickly.
Only place I wondered about is, I was in a line for Rx pickup (heart meds), pretty sharp curve, but inching forward I just keep my foot off the gas completely, and was wondering, is that small amount of power enough to lock them up, I'm guessing yes but situations like that maybe you only find out after you have them.
For turns in town (not talking about at intersections, just curvy road) almost always the steering wheel is moving only 10 to 20 degrees from its tdc which is not a lot of steer, rear tires probably would not drag under power. Again a guess.
I will check out the more expensive ones just so I have the complete picture but what I get from your post is probably the Aussies are fine and yes simpler is better for sure, reduce the points of failure. And they're not pricey... it's the work involved putting them in correctly. Ratio change is somewhat pricey, but if one is doing it you'd want to do them both at the same time. Don't have to, though. I could put manual hubs and lockers and 31" tires and call it done for a while and I might be real happy with that.
Thanks again and I'm figuratively taking a big breath.

 

[bobbywalter]

I had a lunchbox in my 2011.

Cost me a set of nitto tires.

It was horrible for a street driven truck. Coasting through turns is fine - in theory, until you have to coast through an uphill turn.

Went to a Ford LSD with the mustang track lock or whatever they're called clutches. Works well for a daily driver and on oil and gas lease roads.

If I change again, I'll go to something like a helical gear or torsen. Sort of doubting I will, though.

Your truck diff housing was off or broken.

Or was clearanced incorrectly.... possibly the components were incorrect.

I never got over there before you tossed it to measure.

Cause they don't work like that when functioning correctly.

 

[bobbywalter]

Ah well that's what I get for making assumptions as to why you had the air. I got to finish your build thread. Air sounds great to have though.
Did not realize this problem of the pinion diameter, thanks. How about 4.56, same problem, or just less of it? There are others in between my 3.73 and 4.56 but at some point if it's just a tiny change it's not worth it.
Any reason I'd want to go to 4R70 trans? I'm guessing firm no because lots of work and the 4.0L would never come even close to over-torquing the 4R55.
I had to go a couple places this evening and pretended I had Aussies, how would I drive and found you are of course correct what you say. Probably it's like, I drove stick for decades, went to auto, found myself reaching for stick that wasn't there, but in short order that goes away so driving w/ lockers of that type probably becomes natural and instinctive pretty quickly.
Only place I wondered about is, I was in a line for Rx pickup (heart meds), pretty sharp curve, but inching forward I just keep my foot off the gas completely, and was wondering, is that small amount of power enough to lock them up, I'm guessing yes but situations like that maybe you only find out after you have them.
For turns in town (not talking about at intersections, just curvy road) almost always the steering wheel is moving only 10 to 20 degrees from its tdc which is not a lot of steer, rear tires probably would not drag under power. Again a guess.
I will check out the more expensive ones just so I have the complete picture but what I get from your post is probably the Aussies are fine and yes simpler is better for sure, reduce the points of failure. And they're not pricey... it's the work involved putting them in correctly. Ratio change is somewhat pricey, but if one is doing it you'd want to do them both at the same time. Don't have to, though. I could put manual hubs and lockers and 31" tires and call it done for a while and I might be real happy with that.
Thanks again and I'm figuratively taking a big breath.

My bronco is spooled and my ranger has a full time locker. Sometimes they are locked front too.


Spooled tears up tires fairly quick.

The Aussie can be an issue where it either won't lock...or won't unlock


This is sometimes installer error...or just the way a carrier is cast ..or some other issue with broke pin or spring or the housing is bent.

Locked ..... Usually a bent housing.

My ranger does really well save for the bang and clanks of the spartan ... I used to run selectable.... But for what I mostly do.... It's not needed.

A properly working lunch box works really well. Great value.



The 4r70 is a v 8 trans. Not 4.0 friendly. the 4r55 is junk on a good day....but livable regardless.

A zeak winch might be the best upgrade for 300 dollar range.


Of course.....I don't have stock axles either....or drivetrains.

 

[James Morse]

4r55 is junk on a good day.

You say this why, and if a person were upgrading it to a different trans what would they use?
Or are you saying install shift kit etc.

 

[00t444e]

Auto lockers wether it be a luncbox or full case locker don't lock when you put power to them, they are always locked in the default position. When you go around a turn the outside tire uncouples and turns faster than the inside tire, this happens whether you are coasting or giving it power. However since in a turn only the inside tire is being driven if you give it too much gas it will chirp the inside tire, and if it spins to much it will lock back up since the wheels can't turn slower than the carrier is being driven. A lunchbox locker in the rear turns just as easily as an open differential as long as you don't give it enough gas to chirp a tire, which also can happen with an open differential. It is amazing that those type of lockers have been around for over 60 years and people still don't understand how they actually work.

 

[ericbphoto]

Auto lockers wether it be a luncbox or full case locker don't lock when you put power to them, they are always locked in the default position. When you go around a turn the outside tire uncouples and turns faster than the inside tire, this happens whether you are coasting or giving it power. However since in a turn only the inside tire is being driven if you give it too much gas it will chirp the inside tire, and if it spins to much it will lock back up since the wheels can't turn slower than the carrier is being driven. A lunchbox locker in the rear turns just as easily as an open differential as long as you don't give it enough gas to chirp a tire, which also can happen with an open differential. It is amazing that those type of lockers have been around for over 60 years and people still don't understand how they actually work.

One day, you'll understand.

I'm going on several years if first-hand experience. If that tires is chirping and/or there's no clicking noise from the teeth slipping past each other, then it's locked. Period.

 

[00t444e]

One day, you'll understand.

I'm going on several years if first-hand experience. If that tires is chirping and/or there's no clicking noise from the teeth slipping past each other, then it's locked. Period.

Same here, currently own 5 of them and have been daily driving with them for the past several years, everything I said is 100% correct.

 

[James Morse]

Eric, I haven't got thru all your Splash build yet; which lockers are you using?
Because I'd tend to go that route just like I got the XLT based on zero knowledge or understanding, just on trusted recommends from here, (and experience with the 2wd Mazda, ease of working on it) and I wasn't steered wrong, I really like the Ranger. I'd even say that of all the vehicles I've owned in 53 years of driving, it's my favorite. Creature comforts, visibility, versatility, capability, safety, looks, easy to work on - everything good. I don't need a 150 mph car like I used to think I did then can't even fit a fish rod in it without it slapping you in the face and can't get to where the fish are anyway. I can fit one heck of a lot in the truck without even going higher than the bed rails, one of these days I'm gonna post my list. Rambling per usual. I'm just saying, I have no issue with being a copycat if I trust the people I'm copying, and I don't have to understand everything.
Edit: @00t444e, which lockers are you using?

 

[sgtsandman]

To me, a selectable (on/off) locker is a better option, whether is be cable, pneumatic, or electrically actuated but they have the down sides of cost and there is the potential of damage to whatever the actuation method is. When off, they operate just like a normal open differential. When on, they lock up both sides of the axle for maximum power application to both wheels.

The lunchbox locker has the benefits of simplicity, as long as you know how to drive with them, and are cheaper. Of course, you have to deal with the loud ratcheting noise when turning and you have to pay attention to how you drive with them. It's always "on". So you don't have to remember to engage it like a selectable model and there is no external connection to worry about getting broken. One just has to decide where they want to compromise on the positives and negatives of each type.

A cable model, you will have a stick on the floor and will have to cut a hole. Ox Locker is the only model I know of using this system right now.

A pneumatic model will require an on board air compressor and possibly a small air tank, which will add to the cost.

An electric model will just require wiring up a switch to operate the locker.

As far as strength, I couldn't tell you which is going to be better. I think they are generally about the same with the exception of the one Auburn model, which is basically an electrically clamping limited slip that seems to break lock at the wrong time according to the feed back I've gotten from different people.

A side benefit of the air actuated type is that you now have an on board air compressor for airing your tires back up when you are done off roading or terrain conditions change.

I'm leaning toward electric myself, if and when that day ever comes. The ratcheting of a lunchbox locker would drive me more nuts than I already am.

 

[00t444e]

To me, a selectable (on/off) locker is a better option, whether is be cable, pneumatic, or electrically actuated but they have the down sides of cost and there is the potential of damage to whatever the actuation method is. When off, they operate just like a normal open differential. When on, they lock up both sides of the axle for maximum power application to both wheels.

The lunchbox locker has the benefits of simplicity, as long as you know how to drive with them, and are cheaper. Of course, you have to deal with the loud ratcheting noise when turning and you have to pay attention to how you drive with them. It's always "on". So you don't have to remember to engage it like a selectable model and there is no external connection to worry about getting broken. One just has to decide where they want to compromise on the positives and negatives of each type.

A cable model, you will have a stick on the floor and will have to cut a hole. Ox Locker is the only model I know of using this system right now.

A pneumatic model will require an on board air compressor and possibly a small air tank, which will add to the cost.

An electric model will just require wiring up a switch to operate the locker.

As far as strength, I couldn't tell you which is going to be better. I think they are generally about the same with the exception of the one Auburn model, which is basically an electrically clamping limited slip that seems to break lock at the wrong time according to the feed back I've gotten from different people.

A side benefit of the air actuated type is that you now have an on board air compressor for airing your tires back up when you are done off roading or terrain conditions change.

I'm leaning toward electric myself, if and when that day ever comes. The ratcheting of a lunchbox locker would drive me more nuts than I already am.

A selectable makes more sense in the front than in the rear of a street driven vehicle. A selectable is either open or fully locked, and in the rear of a street vehicle I don't want either of those options. I use 85w140 in my vehicles with lunchbox lockers and don't even hear them, I can post a video if you want. Another good option is a gear tryp limited slip like a Detroit Truetrac.

 

[00t444e]

Edit: @00t444e, which lockers are you using?

Right now, I have Spartan, Lock Right and Detroit lockers.

 

[ericbphoto]

I'm running Aussies in both ends.

 

[James Morse]

@00t444e of the ones you have, is there a preference? Also I totally don't understand about the front, I mean, if you have lockers of any type, you're putting both front/back, right? Are you saying you can run ratcheting in the rear and lockable (selectable) in the front? And why do you not like running open diff in the back on the street? Yes pls post vid. And sorry if I am dense about what you said.

It seems like you wouldn't put lockers in just the rear or just the front, or are you saying because of the front/rear being bound together by the xfr case that you can only put them rear? That seems counter intuitive but what do I know, nothing.

I got a lot of reading to do and I keep asking the sometimes idiotic questions. The thing to be careful is whatever manufacturer you read theirs is always the best so that's typical ad hype I ignore.

This is a deep rabbit hole and I have a feeling it's going be a long time before I even determine what to do let alone do it.

 

[sgtsandman]

A selectable makes more sense in the front than in the rear of a street driven vehicle. A selectable is either open or fully locked, and in the rear of a street vehicle I don't want either of those options. I use 85w140 in my vehicles with lunchbox lockers and don't even hear them, I can post a video if you want. Another good option is a gear tryp limited slip like a Detroit Truetrac.

It could be the type of axles we have then. I've heard a few trucks of other brands that obviously had lunchbox lockers in them and they were quite loud. Come to think of it, I seem to remember hearing Eric's lunchbox's clicking away at the last trail ride we were both at. I could be misremembering though.

If I was sticking to strictly street, I would agree on the gear type LSDs. While better than a clutch style for off road, a locker is better for off road.

 

[00t444e]

@00t444e of the ones you have, is there a preference? Also I totally don't understand about the front, I mean, if you have lockers of any type, you're putting both front/back, right? Are you saying you can run ratcheting in the rear and lockable (selectable) in the front? And why do you not like running open diff in the back on the street? Yes pls post vid. And sorry if I am dense about what you said.

It seems like you wouldn't put lockers in just the rear or just the front, or are you saying because of the front/rear being bound together by the xfr case that you can only put them rear? That seems counter intuitive but what do I know, nothing.

I got a lot of reading to do and I keep asking the sometimes idiotic questions. The thing to be careful is whatever manufacturer you read theirs is always the best so that's typical ad hype I ignore.

This is a deep rabbit hole and I have a feeling it's going be a long time before I even determine what to do let alone do it.

The only thing that has to be the same in both axles is the gear ratio. You can run a locker, limited slip, open differential or any combination of those in either axle, so yes you can run an auto locker in the rear and a selectable up front. I don't like an open rear differential on the street because of the poor traction it gives you, and if you put a selectable locker in the rear you have paid over $1000 for something that gives you no better performance than factory differential did. Yes you can lock it off road, but its a mostly street vehicle you aren't getting your moneys worth out of it 95% of the time, with an auto locker it is always working and giving you better traction on or off road. On an IFS vehicle like a Ranger I prefer to leave the front open to keep from putting too much stress on the CV axles, and have a locker in the rear. For the Ford 8.8 28 spline axle the Lock Right locker is about the only option for a lunchbox locker and they work just fine, the Spartan and Aussie lockers are great too and work exactly the same way. The video is my Jeep with Spartan lockers in both axles, can't even hear them, the popping you do hear when I turn is my steering.

Jeep XJ Spartan lockers in both axles.

youtube.com