Alignment issues (pics of shop alignment printout inside)

[aeidian]

Gonna take a crack at this tomorrow. I got those bushings, do I need to get an angle gauge? Can I just put them in and then adjust it down the degrees you listed or is the camber going to change just putting them in? I'm trying to avoid taking it back to that shop.

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[4x4junkie]

I would probably start with the bushings set to 0° (or whatever their minimum is) and start from there.

Camber is pretty easy to see by eyeball (though a camber gauge or even a simple level can be used against the edge of the rim too). Toe is easy to set using a chalk like around the tire and a tape measure. Dialing in the caster will require you drive it around a bit to see which way it's pulling though (it's explained pretty well in the link I gave earlier).

One thing it's imperative you have though are good tires. It's quite obvious you'll never be able to get it dialed in using this method with the ones you have on it right now, so I'd plan on getting some tires for it first (if your rear ones are in good shape, you might be OK swapping those to the front).

 

[CJzBlack93RNGR]

been doing alignments for years..
Eccentric bushings are easy but can be complicated.
Keep in mind they can be "added labor" depending where you go.
You will be charged a flat rate fee for an alignment usually range from 60-100.
If you need bushings they will charge you for the bushing (extra labor for installing them and figuring out what size ill explain more about it later)

The Hunter WinAlign system they used has a automatic bushing calcualtor inside it. If you have previous eccentric cam bushings installed its a cake walk there they could've inputed the numbers (sizes) on the top of each and manually inputed what the desired adjustment change they want is and it will compute everything for you... Telling you what size (degree) bushing you need to install per side. (it isnt uncommon for the left and right side to call for different size bushings.)

If you dont have eccentric bushings installed they can guess (I honostly will sometimes guess, its faster and I can usually figure it out but i do make mistakes and some cases guessing doesnt work! LOL)

The REAL way to calculate a eccentric bushing if you have the stock non adjustable bushing in is this: (Why usually you get added labor)
"instead of guessing numbers" you remove the stock bushing (techs who do bushing adjustments and arent retarded ALWAYS have a "ZERO OFFSET BUSHING" on hand in their tool box or that stays at the hunter cabinet.
Basically you have to remove the stock bushings, install the zero offset bushing re-measure your caster. Then you open the calcuator and set it off of "0" it will compute it for you and tell you what exact bushings are needed so the tech can adjust both camber and caster perfect.
If they adjust it and camber or caster gets maxed out some where they didnt calculate it right.

 

[aeidian]

Ok, so I decided to take a crack at this today. I got the pin out of the top nut, took the nut off, then removed the c-clip. I've tried prying up on this, and twisting it, but I can't get it to budge. I've had PB on it for about an hour now. I can't seem to find a decent spot to grab to pry, that lip is only about an 1/8" of an inch. Is there something else I'm supposed to remove first before prying? I put the nut back on the top and beat on it with a hammer because I read somewhere that it can make the bushing come up if you do. I haven't had any luck with that. I did spread the gap slot a bit with a pry bar and then a chisel, but that doesn't seem to have helped.

 

[aeidian]

I finally got the passenger side to come out by beating on the bolt (with the nut on the bolt so as not to damage the threads) on the upper ball joint until the upper ball joint dropped down and then I could beat the camber bushing side to side until it came out. What a bitch. I dialed in the replacement adjustable bushing and beat it down as far as I could but it doesn't sit flush, I can't get it to go any farther. I torqued the upper ball joint nut to 100ft lbs. It still doesn't look right but I can't figure any other way to get it to go on there. The ball joint boot doesn't sit flush against the frame either.

I've gotten it to go a little but farther down by using a punch on the outside ring tabs, but I don't think I can get it anymore. The ball joint seems to be angled back now too, but I guess that's the point right? The camber and caster change?

 

[4x4junkie]

I see nothing unusual there, as long as everything is in place tight, it's fine. The boot is probably old and has taken a "set" in the old position the ball joint was in. It may flatten out after a bit, though I would probably suggest getting new ones for it.

 

[aeidian]

After making the adjustments I thought I needed I ended up with a pretty massive positive camber, so I decided to set the bushings to 0 degree and take it to the alignment shop and have them check it from scratch, then I would take it home and make the adjustments based on what they measured. Here's the printout of what the alignment looks like after I had set the bushings to 0 degree which is N/TU (N/TU on the chart below is 0 camber and 0 caster).

I was aiming for .5 camber and 3.5 caster since that's about dead middle. So using the chart below I came up with these figures:

-1.0 + 1.5 = 0.5 driver camber
4.6 - 1.0 = 3.6 driver caster

-1.4 + 2.0 = 0.6 passenger camber
3.8 - 0.25 = 3.55 passenger caster

So going off this chart I need to add 1.5 degrees to driver camber, -1.0 degrees from driver caster which gives me I/V. I need to add 2.0 degrees to passenger camber, -0.25 degrees to passenger caster which gives me ST/QR:

Now either I'm reading this chart completely wrong, my math is off, or I'm doing something really wrong here because once I applied the changes to the drivers side bushing and set it to I/V I had a massive positive camber. I haven't done the passenger side and have not had it re measured but I can tell just by looking at it that this isn't right. What's wrong here? I'm clearly screwing something up in the figures, what letters do I need to set the bushing to to correct the degrees?

 

[brinker88]

You wont get a proper reading if you have the tires off the ground when adjusting the bushing.

 

[aeidian]

You wont get a proper reading if you have the tires off the ground when adjusting the bushing.

Are my figures correct then? Did I set the bushing to the right letters based on the chart? I have to say it's significantly angled out on the top and I don't believe it's going to straighten up even sitting flat.

 

[brinker88]

Read. Down towards the bottom of the page

http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/winter2008/steering_tech.htm

 

[aeidian]

I went ahead and set the passenger side to the figures I have above, and it's still a noticeable positive camber on both sides. Tires look like \\ //. I guess I'll take it to the alignment shop tomorrow and see what they read. I've double and triple checked the figures above and unless I'm reading the chart wrong I can't understand why the adjustments I made based on their measurements wouldn't put it where I want. They gave me the standard ball joints are loose, steering box has play, etc when I had them checked it this time, but as far as I can tell nothing is "loose" I can yank and pull on the suspension and I don't feel any play.

 

[94xlt4.0]

your math is all right but you have the passenger side letters wrong, you did the camber right but you added more caster instead of subtracting caster. you should have HI/WX. but the driver side looks right.

edit: you were correct according to the chart, i misread it

 

[doorgunner]

I used the NAPA adjustable bushings......

(you have to adjust the driver's side toe FIRST using the string method or at least eyeball it until it looks straight......then adjust the passenger side toe or the tie-rods will have the wheels in such a bind that the camber can't be corrected)

I adjusted the driver's side camber & caster first after setting the drivers side toe using the string method......

then I adjusted the toe between both wheels which was off a lot......

then I drove the truck around the block a couple times to "settle the wheel down"....It was off 1/2 degree so I readjusted the bushing & drove the truck again....it visually looked very good with a level & eyeballing it.

Then the passenger's wheel was way out of caster/camber/toe....

I adjsted the toe .250" /adjusted the camber/adjusted the caster....(REMEMBER TO KEEP THE TOE ADJUSTED while aligning the camber TO PREVENT BINDING THE WHEELS)

I HAD LOTS OF PROBLEMS WITH THE PASSENGERS WHEEL WHEN USING THE CHART---I ENDED UP ADJUSTING THE WHEEL BY EYEBALL.....READING THE LETTERS ON THEBUSHING....then adjusting the bushing one letter at a time---driving the truck around the block---then adjusting the bushing another letter--making sure that the wheel was beginning to "lean" the way that it need to lean.....

THE CHART SHOWED THAT I WAS NO WHERE NEAR WHERE THE WHEEL SHOULD BE--EVEN THOUGH THE WHEEL STARTED LOOKING FAIRLY STRAIGHT....

so I continued slightly adjusted the passenger wheel caster/camber/toe from the reading on the bushing---NOT THE CHART---until the level/my eyeballs and the tape measure showed the the passengers wheel was correct....test driving the truck after each adjustment......

it took 3 times as long to get the passengers wheel correct (the chart readings just didn't jive with the bushing actual readings)

THE TRUCK DRIVES GREAT/NO TIRE WEAR AFTER 10,000 MILES.....

BUT THE CHART READING IS NOWHERE NEAR WHAT THE PASSENGERS BUSHING READING TURNEd OUT TO BE ON THE PASSENGER TIRE....

hope that makes a little sense about the usefullness of the chart....

 

[aeidian]

I used the NAPA adjustable bushings......

(you have to adjust the driver's side toe FIRST using the string method or at least eyeball it until it looks straight......then adjust the passenger side toe or the tie-rods will have the wheels in such a bind that the camber can't be corrected)

I adjusted the driver's side camber & caster first after setting the drivers side toe using the string method......

then I adjusted the toe between both wheels which was off a lot......

then I drove the truck around the block a couple times to "settle the wheel down"....It was off 1/2 degree so I readjusted the bushing & drove the truck again....it visually looked very good with a level & eyeballing it.

Then the passenger's wheel was way out of caster/camber/toe....

I adjsted the toe .250" /adjusted the camber/adjusted the caster....(REMEMBER TO KEEP THE TOE ADJUSTED while aligning the camber TO PREVENT BINDING THE WHEELS)

I HAD LOTS OF PROBLEMS WITH THE PASSENGERS WHEEL WHEN USING THE CHART---I ENDED UP ADJUSTING THE WHEEL BY EYEBALL.....READING THE LETTERS ON THEBUSHING....then adjusting the bushing one letter at a time---driving the truck around the block---then adjusting the bushing another letter--making sure that the wheel was beginning to "lean" the way that it need to lean.....

THE CHART SHOWED THAT I WAS NO WHERE NEAR WHERE THE WHEEL SHOULD BE--EVEN THOUGH THE WHEEL STARTED LOOKING FAIRLY STRAIGHT....

so I continued slightly adjusted the passenger wheel caster/camber/toe from the reading on the bushing---NOT THE CHART---until the level/my eyeballs and the tape measure showed the the passengers wheel was correct....test driving the truck after each adjustment......

it took 3 times as long to get the passengers wheel correct (the chart readings just didn't jive with the bushing actual readings)

THE TRUCK DRIVES GREAT/NO TIRE WEAR AFTER 10,000 MILES.....

BUT THE CHART READING IS NOWHERE NEAR WHAT THE PASSENGERS BUSHING READING TURNEd OUT TO BE ON THE PASSENGER TIRE....

hope that makes a little sense about the usefullness of the chart....

How did you keep readjusting it? Everytime I have to readjust it I have to beat the hell out of the upper ball joint shaft to get it to drop down and the bushing slide up a bit. I left the castle nut on top of the shaft the first couple of times as a strike point but that pretty quickly got mashed after repeatedly beating it. Eventually I had to get two nuts from Ace and a lock washer to replace it. I tightened the first nut to 100ft lbs, then put on the lock washer, then tightened the top nut to 100ft lbs. When readjusting I take off the top nut and lock nut, but I still have to leave one nut on the top of the shaft and beat the hell out of it to get the ball joint to come loose, and I've already destroyed a couple of replacement nuts doing it. Suggestions?

 

[kryptonitecb]

Are you jacking up the axle when you make the adjustment?

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic