5.0 Questions

[adsm08]

And just my 2 cents.... If you don't need to pass emissions, I would not run EGR. I really don't have any other reason but the fact I like to run as little as possible.

Yeah, this right here is my conundrum. I like emissions controls. I really do think it's a great idea, but the car is older than the idea. Even Federally it's a non-regulated vehicle.

It will have cats if I have anything to say about it. It's my dad's project, he funds it, I just put parts on it.

 

[shane96ranger]

If you run cats, then I would say EGR is a good idea then.

It is definitely a conundrum here. While it is the right thing to do environmentally, it is not necessary, and you can use that money elsewhere.

It is not required to have catalytic converters until the 84 model year in Utah (some counties still only require a safety inspection). I don't know if this is a federal law, because as you know, cars had cats in the 70's. Seems like the feds say if it was an OEM part, it must have it. They also don't require emissions until the 67 model year.

 

[adsm08]

Well the thing is it's not really any extra money to spend anywhere. The 5.0 runs the EGR off ports through the head, direct from the middle valves. My heads and intake have the passages, it's just a matter of which carb and plate I get, which are parts I need anyway. On the other hand, I have never seen a carbe'd engine with EGR that ran quite right.

Cats are pretty much a must in my mind. A pair of good universal high-flows will only cost $200. Three-way cats can pretty much take care of all the Nox on their own, without any help from EGR. Or tune it a little rich so it stays cool. Then it wouldn't be making Nox anyway.

As for the laws, I know the laws. PA state law says it only has to have what it was built with, and it has to look like it could work. 1974 and older, or if it is driven less than 5000 miles a year (which this car almost certainly will be) anything goes.

First year that cats were mandated was 1975, and federal law says 1975+ must have cats if it was built with them. There were a few years after 75 that Honda managed to get the Civic to pass Federal tailpipe without cats. I think the Civics got them around 1980.


Anyway, progress...

Paint:






That pic doesn't show it very well, but the valve covers look terrible. They were grey, then someone painted them blue, then someone pretended to paint them red, and must have gotten bored halfway through and quit. The paint was in bad shape, so I took a wire wheel to them this morning, cleaned off what flaked away easily, got the rust off for the most part, brought them back and painted them. They look terrible. You can easily see where a section of bare metal abruptly goes to 4 layers deep, and the paint is so thick over the logos that you can barely see them. I will be taking them down to a local coating shop to get them sand blasted this week, then start over.

The oil pan, which I won't be nearly as picky with because you can't see it, looks 100x better than the valve covers.

Front cover and oil pan got their color coats and shot with clear already today. They should be dry enough to install in about half an hour here.

Mechanical progress:



Put bell on trans so it doesn't get lost. Last time I lost the bell was 2007. Just found it last week, in the trunk of the car.



Heads are clean, installed, valve train together, dog-bones and retainers in. Yes, it is upside down for a reason. I didn't look closely at the intake mating surface before installing the heads. There was a lot of really baked on intake gasket right around the EGR ports and water passages. Some (pronounced "a lot") of that stuff fell into the valley. I am going to blast it out with some brake cleaner and air later. Just letting stuff fall out for now.



Timing drive all together, oil pump in.

 

[adsm08]

And now it is locked up tight. It was a little stiff with the heads off two weeks ago, but with some oil wiped on the cylinder walls it was not terrible. Then I put the heads on and got the crank timed and what not and it still turned over, still stiff, but not inappropriate to an engine with some compression in it.

Now I have the cam gear bolted up, front cover and water pump on, tried to spin it around so I have put the fuel pump in (eccentric is in the wrong spot) and she is locked up tighter than Fort Knox. Then I ran out of light.

Tomorrow I am going to pull the plugs, see how it is, and if it still won't turn I'll undo the rockers and try again. If it still won't turn after that I think I'll probably chuck it off a bridge and start over with a crate unit.


I am also considering sticking the oil pickup in a container of oil, running the pump with a drill until it starts running onto the floor, and try again.

 

[adsm08]

Went out and played with it a bit this morning, plugs out, no joy. Untorqued the rockers a hair and it did start to move, but still VERY VERY stiff. Looked through the fuel pump hole to see if the eccentric was in the right spot to install the pump and there are shavings everywhere.

The pump eccentric is dragging against the front cover!!!!!! :

Now what? Obviously I have to take the cover back off. It's an OEM mechanical pump cover, Ford racing eccentric, double roller timing set. Could my timing gears be too thick? They are the only part of this equation that's not Ford parts.

 

[dangerranger83]

I think it's because it's a double roller timing set.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[adsm08]

Well I only need to lose about 1/8 inch of the front on the lobe. Its at least that much wider than the pump arm. I think I will hit it with the bench grinder and see if that helps.

Postin' from teh Galaxy

 

[shane96ranger]

The double roller sets need a two piece eccentric.

EDIT - Like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBF-FORD-289-302-351W-5-0-331-347-mechanical-fuel-pump-eccentric-kit-/221250380394?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

 

[adsm08]

Not any more it doesn't. I took the grinder, jigged it up on my "work bench" (piece of ply wood laid on top of a 55 gallon drum), and shaved 3/16" off the front of it. It clears the front cover nicely, and with everything installed the fuel pump arm still has a little space on the outer side of the eccentric.

I'm pretty confident that this will work.

 

[shane96ranger]

Did a lot of metal drop in the pan?

Posting from the Galaxy.

 

[adsm08]

Did a lot of metal drop in the pan?

Posting from the Galaxy.

I certainly hope not. It was upside down on a pile of seats 5 feet away at the time.

I did take the timing set off, clean it well, re-oil, and make sure no burrs were left on the cover.

 

[shane96ranger]

Ahhh, okay. I assumed it was on the motor already.

 

[adsm08]

Ahhh, okay. I assumed it was on the motor already.

Nope, I was waiting until I had the front cover on and right. I am usually pretty meticulous about engine building.


Anyway, more pretty stuff.


Did some detail work on the intake.








Take two on the valve covers. So much better this time.

 

[adsm08]

Ok, next issue. Where does the PCV valve go?


Also, next on the slate is the trans. I have zero confidence in my own ability to rebuild or repair an automatic transmission. I hate the bastards. I will rebuild manuals blindfolded all day long, I hate autos.

Anyway, against my better judgement, and after looking through various accounts and walk-throughs online I have decided to just pony up and build the trans myself. The car under the knife here was my mom's birthday present from my dad about 15 years ago. Getting it running and on the road is my present for her this year.

Anyway, we don't even have a torque converter. We have pretty much everything else at this point, but I need to pick a converter. This is a summer street-cruiser for my parents, not a burn-out car for their idiot son. What is a good stall for the converter? I'm looking at one that is rated 3000-3500, but I really don't know how that number translates into driving quality. I just know that it's the approximate RPM that you will hook up and start spinning the wheels if you stand on both the gas and brake at the same time.

 

[Shanenp123]

PCV valve is usually put in the back of the passenger side valve cover.

A 3000 stall converter is pretty high for a street vehicle, I would lean closer to say 2500